Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-h
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:aeq
From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: various comments
Message-ID: <1433@pucc-h>
Date: Wed, 31-Oct-84 23:13:05 EST
Article-I.D.: pucc-h.1433
Posted: Wed Oct 31 23:13:05 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 3-Nov-84 02:50:22 EST
Organization: High-level Operating Systems Experts [HOSE], Inc.
Lines: 51

Quick comments on a couple of subjects:

1. Scientism.  It seems that some people view science as a nascent god, or at
   least as approaching omniscience, by claiming that there every phenomenon
   in the universe either can now be, or will eventually be able to be,
   explained *correctly* by science.  Believers in scientism assume the
   impossibility of miracles (an assumption for which there is no evidence
   that I know of).  When a phenomenon occurs which, as reported, can have no
   conceivable explanation according to known science or extrapolations
   therefrom, they either deny that any such incident ever occurred or else
   they devise explanations which differ from the observed, reported
   phenomenon.  Obviously I have the Resurrection in mind.  I think that people
   try to explain away the Resurrection of Christ because they don't *want* to
   believe that any such thing as a miracle-working God more powerful than they
   can exist.  It is, indeed, a matter of pride.  Which leads me to....
2. While it is true that people do, out of pride (which was really the first
   sin of both Satan and the Eve-Adam partnership), rebel against God, I feel
   that Ken Nichols is placing too much emphasis on the sinfulness of man and
   the justice of God, and neglecting the love and compassion.  (I appreciated
   Mark Terribile's article to a similar effect.)  Christ never won disciples
   by going around telling all the rough fishermen, prostitutes, crooked tax
   collectors, etc. what scumbags they all were.  He accepted them and loved
   them, and associated with them, just as they were.  (Had he been an employer
   in the usual sense, I'm sure He would have hired someone who was a
   homosexual at the time of the interview...however, I have read of enough
   homosexuals who were changed into much happier heterosexuals by the power of
   Christ that I believe that close association with Christ would likely cause
   the homosexual to be changed, just as it caused a huge variety of other
   sinners to be changed.)  The only people that Christ actively denounced were
   the religious leaders who were substituting their own tradition for the
   commandments of God, and making a tidy profit to boot -- and thus not only
   failing to enter the Kingdom of God themselves but also interfering with
   those who genuinely wanted to.

   Generally people will not respond positively to someone telling them that
   they're all real losers and deserve hell.  Rather, they respond positively
   when someone meets their needs (or wants).  Let us try to demonstrate God's
   love by conveying it to people where they need it.  Christ, on at least one
   and probably many occasions, asked people, "What do you want me to do for
   you?" -- in other words, He wanted and was ready to meet whatever need the
   person had.  Christians compose the Body of Christ; the Body, as a whole,
   should be ready to meet whatever need it encounters.  None of us can do
   everything, nor is each of us supposed to do everything.  But let us shoot
   for the goal of being like Christ, yet without becoming perfectionistic and
   condemning ourselves (or worse, others) because that goal is not fully
   attained (since it never will be in this life).

There are plenty of things in articles which came in during my vacation that I
would normally respond to, but there are time constraints; so I will just let
them slide, and resume responding in detail to things which arrive in future.