Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site qantel.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!amd!dual!qantel!ken From: ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: Re: Response to Tim Maroney - The character of God. Message-ID: <276@qantel.UUCP> Date: Wed, 31-Oct-84 12:48:41 EST Article-I.D.: qantel.276 Posted: Wed Oct 31 12:48:41 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Nov-84 05:33:49 EST References: <239@qantel.UUCP> <586@ames.UUCP>, <257@qantel.UUCP> <1066@trwrba.UUCP> Organization: MDS Qantel, Hayward, CA Lines: 162 > [Ken Nicholls on Hell] > Well, I suppose to you it might not seem a privilege, but it is > to me. It is also a fact that in the end every man will give > God glory whether or not he wishes to. > > I see. God will use us like puppets to praise him, whether we > consciously want to or not. The reason that every knee shall bend > before your god is because everyone else will be burning alive for > sins they never knew they committed. No. At the Great White Throne Judgement all men will give God the worship He deserves. They will finally realize that He exists, and was there all the time, waiting for them to come to Him in humility. But since they refused, they have to be punished. > I don't really care to worship a god that practices blackmail. Not > because of "sinfull rebellious pride", your three favorite words Mr. > Nicholls, but rather because only a God that practices justice and the > truth is worthy of worship. Your God is a monster who threatens > potential worshipers through blackmail. God is the essence of Truth and Justice. He is the standard. Man is merely TRYING to imitate this standard (and not doing very well). Why can't you see it is because of God's perfect Holiness and Justice that He must condemn man for sin? Why do you (everyone on the net) refuse to look at man's sin for what it is? God cannot allow sin into His presence. He has no choice in this matter. His perfect attributes demand His judgment of sin. > A truly just and holy god understands and respects his creations. > Understanding them, he would judge them according to their own beliefs, > experiences and performance on earth... and reward them accordingly. > Not like a master rewards an obedient dog, but like an artist is > rewarded with what he desires through his work, a thing of beauty > and truth. These deserve heaven for what they have sought (but could > never attain) on earth. You must not know the definition of God's holiness, or you would not say this. Holiness is opposed to sin. They cannot co-habitate. Your talking as if God is human. What is this mutual respect stuff?? God is not your buddy down the street, He's the creator of the universe. God judges for sin, nothing else. All else is irrelevant until the sin is taken care of. For some reason you don't want God to be you Master, Lord, etc. You still want to retain some of your earthly pride. Sounds like you want to be equal with God, instead of under Him. Well, Lucifer tried that, look were it got him. > Those that opted for the easy path; spouting psuedo-religious nonsense > in defense of a God they didn't understand and had no right to defend, > will not accept the truth because their preconceived beliefs are now > too deeply ingrained. They worshipped a satanic God with little respect > for life and ready to anhialate man upon man's first transgretion. True christianity is far from easy. Look at Paul's life. Look at all He suffered for the sake of the gospel. The only truth that man can know is revealed in the Bible. Where is your source of truth? > It is said, he who thirsts justice will find justice. He who seeks the > truth will find truth. Those that are righteous for its own sake will > find righteousness. And those that seek the deaths and eternal torture > of millions upon millions of people in the name of an imagined God... > will find precisley what they have been looking for all along. Where is this said, not in the Bible. God's word is my only source of truth. Being righteous for its own sake will get you NOTHING. Titus 3:5 says, "He saved us, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost." Only Jesus death on the cross makes a man righteous. I do not SEEK the deaths of millions. I will, however, warn of the wrath of God to come. You cannot keep me from doing that. > No, perfection makes God right. God is also perfect, are you? > > Is your God? God has committed murder... have you? God chose that some men would be killed as a proof of His power to the Isrealites, who in turn, glorified Him. The men were used to glorify God. That's the purpose of creation, to glorify Him. Although some men chose not to glorify Him at this time, they all will. > God allows Satan to have dominion over the earth for this short > time (Human history is a short time compared to eternity). > Man, however, has enough rebeliousness in his own self that he > doesn't require much help from Satan to make this world more > and more like Satan would like to see it become. > > God allows Satan to continue to deceive man on earth and God allows > his son to be killed without mercy or justice on earth. Who did you > say was calling the shots? God allowed His son to be killed to redeem man. It is obvious you do not know the purpose of Jesus Christ's stay on this earth. Jesus Christ could have wiped out all the men that were crusifying Him with a single word. He chose to let them kill Him in order to bring men into a relationship with God. But you must chose to enter this relationship, just as He chose to die for you. God is calling all the shots. In the end all things will be under subjection to His beloved son. > If man was innocent and without sin (as God created him in God's own > image) then why did man rebel? If man was duped into disobeying God > then why was God so incredibly harsh in his judgment and punishment? > Why have generations of humans been totally condemned for this one > seemingly so trivial act, which I would like to add was not conceived > of by man or even performed with "rebelliousness" in mind. Man rebelled because of pride. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil was able to make one wise. They wanted to be wise like God. Pride. Now, all men think they can run there own lives without the help of any God. Pride. Man was not duped into disobeying God. Both Adam and Eve knew what they were doing when the took of the fruit of the tree. They wished to be like God. God had to punish their pride, and now also the pride of all other men. > Oh I get it, get out of line JUST ONCE and the entire human race burns, > is that it? Well I have more faith in God than that Mr. Nicholls. JUST ONCE is all it takes, I'm afraid. "He who is guilty on one point is guilty of the whole Law." > If you are offended by my writting, you are offended by the > holiness of God. > > I am offended by the arrogance of man. How dare you claim to be the > spokesperson of God? Have you consulted with God on every word you > have uttered while on the net? Are the two of you one in the same? > Should we now refer to God as "The Holy Four-In-One?" The arrogance of men is their failure to take into account all of God's attributes (as stated clearly in creation and the Bible) and instead to pick out only the ones that will fit well into their theology! I only speak what I have read in the Bible (which can only be understood with the Holy Spirit living inside after salvation). I do not take parts of God and parts of His Word to make my theology. > (I'm not saying I am God's perfect spokesman or anything like > that here. All christians are to be the spokepersons of the > truth about God.) > > You're not his spokesperson but you are his spokesperson. I said I wasn't a PERFECT spokesperson, but I am a spokesperson. I must be. > "...holding forth the Ken Nichols > word of life..." Phil. 2:16 ...!ucbvax!dual!qantel!ken > > This is begininng to grate... like a McDonnald's commercial... > > - John I'm sorry. I use it because it is the key verse of my church. Maybe I'll come up with some new ones. -- "...holding forth the Ken Nichols word of life..." Phil. 2:16 ...!ucbvax!dual!qantelken -----------------