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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!qantel!ken
From: ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Re: More replies to Ken (and general comments)
Message-ID: <299@qantel.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 8-Nov-84 12:42:42 EST
Article-I.D.: qantel.299
Posted: Thu Nov  8 12:42:42 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 07:49:29 EST
References: <488@pucc-k> <> <1791@nsc.UUCP>, <272@qantel.UUCP> <1089@trwrba.UUCP>
Organization: MDS Qantel, Hayward, CA
Lines: 45

John writes,

> 	Saving yourself from on oncoming train is quite a bit different
> 	than saving yourself from eternal damnation.  God wants to save
> 	us because he loves us regardless of whether we care about
> 	ourselves or not.
> 
> I see... God condemns us all to eternal damnation and then turns right
> around and tells us that he loves us.

God's love is expressed in the gift that He sent in the form of His Son to
take the punishment for our sin.  We condemn ourselves by rejecting the gift.
God is doing His best to save us, but some don't want to listen.

> This reminds me of the line Clint Eastwood used in "The Good, The Bad
> and The Ugly".... "Such ingratitude, and after all the times I've saved
> your life."  It's the same principle.  Ken's God is heralded as a
> savior because he saves us from the punishment of God himself.

He saves us from the punishment that we deserve in choosing to go our own way
and forsaking the will of God.  We are also saved from the power of sin, etc.,
not just punishment.  Salvation is not supposed to be a "Get out of jail
free" card.

> If he REALLY loved us "regardless of whether we care about ourselves
> or not" then "He" would take steps to cleanse even the most vile
> sinner of his faults.  Clearly (according to the teachings of Ken
> Nichols) God will NOT do this.

He did take the steps neccessary to cleanse all people.  Some of those people
reject the gift of this cleansing.  And for this, and their sin, God has no
choice but to punish them.  

> Stop contracdicting yourself Ken, it makes it all the more difficult
> to hold a...``conversation'' with you.
> 
> 
> 						- John

I am not contradicting myself.  I am trying to say the same things about God
in different terms, so that all will understand.
--
"...holding forth the                         Ken Nichols
 word of life..." Phil. 2:16                  ...!ucbvax!dual!qantel!ken
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