Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!brl-tgr!robert
From: robert@brl-tgr.ARPA (Robert Shnidman )
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: Shabbat electricity (what is work?)
Message-ID: <5431@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 23-Oct-84 11:53:33 EDT
Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.5431
Posted: Tue Oct 23 11:53:33 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 24-Oct-84 07:49:38 EDT
References: brl-tgr.5198 <348@wxlvax.UUCP>, <2257@rochester.UUCP> <1592@ucf-cs.UUCP>
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab
Lines: 36

> I would like to question the use of the term 'at once'. 'At once' in
> today's vocabulary is relative. While the original author might argue
> that any timer to defer an action would itself be caused by the action,
> the term 'at once' is a misnomer of itself. There IS a sizable delay.
> These days we can measure in picoseconds - and frequently have good
> reason to do so. So there is no distinction between a 'delay' and 'at
> once' - only a fuzzy matter of how MUCH time exceeds 'at once'. So, how
> much time DOES exceed 'at once'?

"At once" is approximately 2 seconds; that is, the time to say "Sholom alechem
Rebe". Let me discuss the overall question just a bit more fully.

First of all, under normal circumstances; such as, no question of life and
death or sickness, it is NOT permissible to turn on lights on Shaboss even
with indirect means. This is because that to turn on an electric light on
Shaboss is prohibitted from the Torah itself and not a Rabbinic decree, since
heating a metal to incandescence even without combustion is considered fire.
It is not allowed to perform any activity prohibitted by the Torah on Shabbos
even indirectly. If it is your specific intention to perform a prohibitted
activity, then performing that activity even indirectly and even if only
prohibitted by Rabbinic decree is not allowed. If the result is prohibitted
by Rabbinic decree, will not take place at once, takes place indirectly,
and is not your specific intent; it is permitted to perform the action.
For example, opening a refrigerator would be permitted although some
people are stringent even in this case. By the way, electricity itself is
considered not fire, and operating devices with only motors are generally
not allowed by Rabbinic decree. This whole issue is really much more
complex as in the Talmud there are mentioned five diferent levels of
what is considered indirect action, and each can have somewhat different
application. Also on Yom Tov the situation in some cases is more lenient.

DISCLAIMER: I am NOT giving any Psak, just giving some backgroud information
to aid understanding the issues.

				Robert Shnidman
				robert@brl-vld.arpa