Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site watmath.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!saquigley
From: saquigley@watmath.UUCP (Sophie Quigley)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Indoctrination
Message-ID: <9524@watmath.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 23-Oct-84 00:52:25 EDT
Article-I.D.: watmath.9524
Posted: Tue Oct 23 00:52:25 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 23-Oct-84 01:43:12 EDT
References: <5390@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 79


[from I-don't-know-who]

>...here's another issue.  Young women
>are indoctrinated to want to be attractive (included in this are looks,
>clothing, and charm), and yet are discouraged from facing their sexuality.

[from I-don't-know-who]

> I would describe it a bit differently, but I think that we're saying the 
> same basic thing.  The words "attractive" and "charming" don't sound quite
> right to me.  Maybe "interesting" would be better.  

[from Moira Mallison]

)Are you kidding?  *Where* have you been?  The Manhattanization of America
)has one message for all women, that we must be young and thin and beautiful.
)And if advertising isn't the most influencing force on young people growing
)up, then what is?
)Regardless of what people in this newsgroup profess to look for in an SO,
)we are bombarded daily about this way to be.  Else how do you account for
)the millions of dollars realized by the diet industry.  Because people
)want to be HEALTHY?    Not to mention the money realized by the fashion
)industry.  Sheesh.

[from William Gulley]

>-commentary on-
>But all of the advertizing in the world can't do a thing unless the "target"
>is fraught with insecurities about how he/she is.  It's kind of like a self-
>fulfilling prophecy; one person gets subjected to it and gets the impression
>that everyone else has these values, so he/she takes those values for their
>own.  If enough people do this, well, the advertized fantasy becomes "reality".
>There's one good means of defense; be honest with yourself and appreciate your
>own individuality- on what you want out of yourself *and* in your potential SO.
>If that happened more often, I'm sure a lot of ad-man/women out there would
>be looking for new jobs in no time. 
>-commentary off-

[from  Marie Carey]

> I definitely agree with Moira about this one. (Loved "Manhattanization
> of America").
> 
> Gulley says that "the "target" is fraught with insecurities about how
> he/she is". 
> 
> My opinion is, with all of the advertising around us stating that to
> look anything *other* than "young, thin, and beautiful" is not the
> norm, how can (some of) we woman *not* have insecurities? 
> 
> The insecurities are practically forced upon us, because no matter how
> hard *I* try, I can not escape advertising. It is *everywhere*. Every
> time I open a newspaper or magazine, I see the "young, thin, and
> beautifuls". Every day that I ride the bus home, I see the ad boards
> plastered on the inside of the bus. Every time I drive on the highways,
> I see the billboards. 

[from me, this time Sophie Quigley]

Not only is the advertising industry showering images of what we should be
like, but we often get the same crap from the people we are most vulnerable
with: our lovers.  Take an example purely at random: me.  With a few minor
adjustments, I could very easily fit the body type of a model, yet I have
had a high percentage (which might not be significant statistically as the
sample set is relatively small, but significant enough for me to get serious
doubts about my body) of my lovers complain about the way my body looked (some
even helpfully suggested areas I should "work on"!).

I did get smart eventually, and I do not become intimate with anybody anymore
without telling them that I am very sensitive to this, and could they please
keep their comments to themselves.  I do wonder though, if I got this kind
of abuse from usually well-meaning lovers, what other less "manhattanish"
women have to go through.  How can the "target" NOT be fraught with insecurities
if THE one person who is supposed to love them and find their body attractive
is himself so critical?

Sophie Quigley
...!{clyde,ihnp4,decvax}!watmath!saquigley