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From: saquigley@watmath.UUCP (Sophie Quigley)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Re: Re: (etc..) Backlash to Feminism
Message-ID: <9535@watmath.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 23-Oct-84 12:18:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: watmath.9535
Posted: Tue Oct 23 12:18:56 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 24-Oct-84 03:35:51 EDT
References: <1604@ucf-cs.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 95

>
>
>>>I think the 'feminist' movement of the 60's and 70's has made its mistakes...
>>>only concentrated on half of the population (women) and largely ignored
>>>the other half (men)...assumed that women were being oppressed by men and
>>>failed to see that men and women were both being oppressed...saw the faults
>>>of men and remained blind to faults of women... regarded gentleness and
>>>sensitivity as basically female or feminine qualities and therefore
>>>indirectly forced men to choose between being insensitive or becoming more
>>>'feminine'...could have had a broader vision.
>
>>I think that you ask a lot of the feminist movement "of the
>>60's and 70's" when you consider it was, for the most part,
>>a struggle in which women were the only participants, and
>>that most men at that time were very much against the
>>points the feminist movement was trying to make. 
>
>>It interests me that after the huge advancements that WOMEN
>>have made in the area of women's rights, men can now stand
>>up and say, "but what about us, why don't you fight for our
>>rights also?"  I can't understand why MEN haven't stood up
>>and fought for their rights.
>
>>Of course the other side of the feminist movement is rights
>>for all people, but don't lay the blame on feminists or the
>>feminist movement for not paying attention to YOUR needs.
>
>>        Sherry Mann
>>        ihnp4!ihu1g!smann
>
>I think the point that was attempting to be made was that the average male
>was told he had to choose.  Either he was in sympathy with the feminists, or
>he was 'on the other side'.  What about those who thought that wrongs were
>being made, but that they didn't necessarily agree with the things that
>feminists were saying?  I also have had the un/fortunate chance of attending
>a class (Women in Literature) in which I was, on one occasion, commended for
>having the sensitivity to attend such a class, and on another occasion, I was
>told, in reference to beautiful women always being blamed for mens problems
>(ie Helen of Troy, etc, but I digress), that 'that is why women hate men'.
>Now, pray tell, what am I supposed to think? I agree that there should be
>equality between the sexes, but not the type espoused in 'Animal Farm' ie,
>some of us are more equal than others, but that also has been thrown at me.
>Do I have to pay for my past fathers (read all the previous males before me)
>sins?  I hope not. Unfortunately, I ask questions that only suggestions can
>be made for.  I truly do not expect a answer for all to come tumbling out of
>the sky.  I only wish that more would realize that we are , indeed, human, and
>that blaming one another for things happening years ago cannot change the
>events that happened.  I digress again,
>
>Submitted Respectfully,
>  Ken Hollis
>
Every social movement has its growing pains, why should feminism be different?
feminism at its beginnings was a movement of self-defense (still is unfortunate-
ly) where one is fighting for a few goals, and in order to get enough people
to fight, you have to boost their egos up.  Also, when a group of people is
being oppressed and then blamed for many of society's ills why should they not
hate the oppressor?  I can't really sympathise with your amazement at discovering
that many women who are abused by men hate them.  No matter how much hate
has been fostered by the early feminist movement, it is still nothing compared
to the suffering that women have had in the hands of men over history (and still
have in most parts of the world), just like the deeds of the Black Panthers were
so minimal compared to the atrocities committed on black by whites throughout
the US's history.  Those violent reactions are not defensible, but they are
understandable, and a whole movement should not be judged by some knee-jerking
reactions that some of its members might have.  Also, there might have been
a lot of anti-male propaganda going on, but it has harldly led to any real
violence against men, and has even been used to justify violence by men against
women, so who is hating who here?

Also, if you remember well, feminism, as other social movements was interested
in power-sharing at the beginning rather than a reevaluation of the system. 
Women saw men enjoying all sorts of priviledges, so tried to emulate them in
order to get some too.  It was believed in the early feminist circles that women
could only fight for the cause if they abandonned all their "feminine" lives:
being a wife and mother, and women who were not willing to do this were sneered
at.  With the attitude that the position of men is the goal to work towards, how
could they start to criticise that role?  so what else is new? isn't this the
same kind of behaviour that other oppressed people have too:  that monkeying the
oppressor is the way out of oppression, especially when the oppression has been
reinforced (as always) by a sense that one's own way is worthless.

If you pay attention to recent trends in feminism, you will find that the
philosophy has been evolving.  For example, the blame for the inequalities
is more often attributed to the system (patriarchy) than to a certain class
of people.  It is now admitted that men's positions are not necessarily
enviable, and that they suffer from patriarchy too (though not to the same
degree as women).  And men are jumping on the bandwagon now trying to change
their roles too.  They are the ones who can evaluate better how it has
done them a disservice, and it is up to them to communicate this to women,
and as far as I know they're starting this communication.  There is hope,
both men's and women's attitudes are changing.

Sophie Quigley
...!{clyde,ihnp4,decvax}!watmath!saquigley