Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot From: chabot@amber.DEC (L S Chabot) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: More on rights Message-ID: <4086@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Thu, 1-Nov-84 10:06:09 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.4086 Posted: Thu Nov 1 10:06:09 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Nov-84 05:32:01 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 94 Mike Ciaraldi == > > How about this for a situation where someone has to give up his or her right > to the sexual use of his or her body?: > > Suppose a woman is in a place such as Nevada where prostitution is legal. > She goes to a brothel staffed by men (No, let's make it a one-man operation to > make it even simpler--she goes to a brothel so small that the owner is also > the sole employee) and, obeying all local ordinances, pays the requested fee > for a night of making whoopee. The proprietor then says, "Tough luck, sister" > and throws her out. She goes to court, producing her Mastercard receipt, and > demands that she be given what she paid for. > > Might not a court rule that she be given legal satisfaction, by receiving > either a refund or the specified sexual emncounter? And, if for some reason > she couldn't get the refund (e.g. the man didn't have the money), could not > the man be compelled by law to engage in sexual acts with her? > > If anyone sees the legal shortcomings of this argument I would like to hear > them, as I am certainly not a lawyer. There's a good deal wrong with this situation. Considering the case is about money paid and services left unrendered, and the probably amount of money involved, this would most likely end up in small claims court. If it was determined that she had paid money and was entitled to service (which would get a lot of giggles in court, I'm sure) or a refund, the judge would likely ask the proprietor what he intended to do about it. If the proprietor said he would provide the paid-for service, then that would probably take care of that, unless for some reason the woman decided that service was no longer timely or needed. If the proprietor said he is not willing or able to provide the service, then the judge would probably prompt for a refund, and if the proprietor expressed an inability to come up with the moolah, then the judge would ask him what he intended to do about it--scheduled gradual repayment of the debt, or whatever. To avoid payment, the proprietor would have to either win the case or die or declare bankruptcy. If the proprietor, after the case is decided against him, continues to refuse to refund the money, the woman can take him to court again. I'm not a lawyer, but I've had experience in small claims court in Massachusetts. A former employer who was not fond of paying his employees gave me a promissory note upon my terminating my employ with his company. When he didn't pay by the time promised, I took him to court. I won. He refused to pay. I had him called to court again, he refused to show, the court sent me a nifty little piece of paper which I paid a marshall to deliver in person. The employer coughed up the "unavailable" money quickly (although it took some time and stubborness to get the court fees and marshall fees legally due me out of him too). Lest you get snickery about just what I was employed to do, and why I was reminded of it by the hypothetical example above, let me say that sometimes programming feels like prostitution. It was a programming job, for a company whose sole product is a piece of software, but the president was too cheap to hire a full-time professional--he got me, then a student and offering to work up to 30 hours a week, and a high school student without transportation and some distance from the office, who wanted to do anything as long as it was Real programming. The company was just starting to try to sell its product, which needed a lot of improvements and support, so it didn't have a lot of money, and an economy measure of the president's was to not pay employees. Considering the programming staff, he had it made--a high school student, who's working more for the joy than for survival, and since he was under 18, "knows" he's lucky just to get a job and so he isn't going to make a big fuss to superiors; and a woman, and everybody "knows" that women don't really need to work, don't really want to, don't make careers. I was also a student, and everybody takes advantage of college students, for the same reasons as they take advantage of their high school student employees--it's not a real job. And I was a woman, so the president could pull his poor-little-boy routine on nurturing-little-me, right? (it used to be so awful, I would get bored and run away as soon as possible) And I was (oops, I still am!) a woman, and therefore a member of an inferior class, and also passive and not likely to cause trouble, disagree, work on promises not pay, and if the poor-little-boy didn't work, sternness would. Right? These things were often bluffs, but sometimes it's tiring to have to put up with them. Well, it didn't last very long, but a lot longer than it should have (6 weeks? I think). The reason it's here is because I want somehow to express to those of us in danger of being taken advantage of to WATCH OUT for such work situations--where you're being underpaid because of your "inferior" status or because of your love of your job. Hackers beware! I also worked as a student consultant, and we consultants were paid less than unskilled student labor (dining service workers)--the excuse was that we got a free account (and a whole 500 vms blocks!!!)(also, a completely ludicrous excuse these days at MIT, when any course 6 major should be able to get more accounts than it knows what to do with), the excuse was that this was a prestigious job and we should be glad we got it, the excuse was that they couldn't afford to pay us more, the excuse was oh gee we forgot. Best wishes, and hope you don't have to learn it the hard way. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA USFail: DEC, MR03-1/K20, 2 Iron Way, Marlborough, MA 01752 shadow: [ISSN 0018-9162 v17 #10 p7, bottom vt100, col3, next to next to last]