Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site qantel.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!amd!dual!qantel!ken From: ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: sinner by birth, sinner by choice Message-ID: <305@qantel.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Nov-84 19:00:10 EST Article-I.D.: qantel.305 Posted: Mon Nov 12 19:00:10 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 15-Nov-84 01:21:58 EST References: <575@watdcsu.UUCP> <275@qantel.UUCP> <909@aecom.UUCP> Reply-To: ken@qantel.UUCP (Ken Nichols@ex6193) Organization: MDS Qantel, Hayward, CA Lines: 65 In article <909@aecom.UUCP> teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) writes: > I am new to net.religion and have been amused by the ongoing discussion >about salvation etc. Being an orthodox Jew, my background in other religions >is weak, so if I say something horrible do not get too upset, just answer me as >kindly as possible. I have no malice at heart but rather just an interest in >other people's beliefs. > > Now for my questions. > > 1. If the only way to salvation is through jesus, what did everyone before >him do? Are they to be damned for something they didn't even know would event- >ually exist? If not, then how can someone today who never found out about >christianity be damned? He should be no worse than someone who preceeded the >whole thing. In the very beginning (Adam through Moses) men spoke directly to God. When they were walking close with God, His Spirit would indwell them from time to time enabling then to perform certain tasks. During the time of Moses, prophecy concerning the Messiah began to arise. The Jews of the old Testament could look forward to this comming Messiah, and in this "their faith was counted as righteousness". The Gentiles at this time were all damned, sorry to say. God had not yet included then in His plan. Isreal was the chosen nation of God. Most Jews knew enough about the comming Messiah to put their faith in the work He would accomplish on the cross. Their basis for righteousness at this time was in obeying the laws of Moses. They did not need to have a full knowledge of Christ during this time in history. About your third question. God has placed within every man an inward knowledge about Himself. This is known as conscience. Man can also see the evidences that nature gives about God. If a man recognizes that their must be something more to life than just this earth and himself, he has begun his quest, shall we say, for God. God, being omnipotent, can recognize the search that has begun in this man's heart. God can then send someone his way to tell him of the plan of salvation. Yes, I really believe that He can do this. > > 2. I would feel like an utterly useless, helpless person if the only way >I could atone for my sins was to get someone else's help ( even jesus ). Why >can't I approach G-D by myself and ask for myself. Why the intermediary?Also >if my nature is inherently evil, why punish me for it? On the day of judge- >ment, I would feel very comfortable going to G-D and saying,'How could you >punish me for acting in the way You created me? After all You creaed me evil >so how can I be punished for living that way?'. Anything you attempt to do to atone for your sins would be utterly useless. No offense intended. Nothing you can do will atone for your sins. Jesus is now the Great High Priest of the order of Melchizedech (sp?). All men need to come through Him. There is no need for any sacrifices because His was the ultimate sacrifice. I don't think you could say that to God very comfortably. God did not create evil, as I hear more and more people say. Evil is not a thing, it's a state of being. Men's minds are filled with evil. The evil is the rebellious attitude against God that we acquired, not from God, but from Satan and Adam. God created man and the world. Sin entered after He was finished. I hope this helps a bit. I didn't go into detail, as you can see. I will be happy to tell you anything about Christianity that you wish to hear. I enjoy the spirit of searching that I sensed in your posting. Please post again.--- "...holding forth the Ken Nichols word of life..." Phil. 2:16 ...!ucbvax!dual!qantel!ken -----------------