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From: jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (John T. Nelson)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: More replies to Ken (and general comments)
Message-ID: <1137@trwrba.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 20-Nov-84 18:38:50 EST
Article-I.D.: trwrba.1137
Posted: Tue Nov 20 18:38:50 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 22-Nov-84 07:27:32 EST
References: <1114@trwrba.UUCP>, <1233@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Organization: TRW EDS, Redondo Beach, CA
Lines: 52

> >No, this is also incorrect since if man *were* by himself (that is, without
> >God) then there would be nothing he would need saving *from*.  There would
> >be no train to run him down (the train being a metaphor for hell) since
> >sccording to Ken it is God who is providing the damnation.
> 
> If there were no God, they we would all be damned-- to eternal death.  God
> doesn't provide the damnation; God nullifies it for some.
> 
> Charley Wingate   umcp-cs!mangoe

Alas... this isn't what the Christian tradition in general preaches.
God isn't just saying, well if you're REAL good you get to go to
heaven.  And if you're REAL bad, you simply stay dead.  No, I'm afraid
that any Christian belief based upon the Bible has to acknowledge the
idea that God is going to save people, not simply from death... but
from eternal punishment.  And condemn people to eternal punishment
as well.

So it seems right for God to be praised for saving us from a natural
death... but to praise God for saving us from a death that is
artificially imposed upon us (by the very same God) appears to all the
world like blackmail and injustice.

Or to put it another way... If man sins and is condemned by those
sins in some cause-and-effect manner, well then justice IS done.  You
reap what you sow.  If God saves you from this condemnation then
it is right to thank God for that salvation.  A very generous gift.
The Christian Bible, however, preaches that not only will we suffer
for our sins via natural cause-and-effect, but a value system will
be imposed on us to ADD punishment above and beyond that which we have
already endured.

Of course many people are not punished for their wrongs and many don't
learn from what they have done.  One might argue that a value system
that also prescribes punishments and rewards is NECESSARY so as to take care
of those people that have sinned and yet were not punished or did not
learn from their wrongs.  Similar arguments go for those that suffered or
were not rewarded for a good life.

But is eternal damanation REALLY a just punishment for anyone?  Many
will argue that NO ONE deserves eternal bliss in heaven.  Can it not be
similarly argued that NO ONE deserves eternal damnation in hell?



				"We don' need no stinkin green books!"
				- John
-- 
What... is your name?				John T. Nelson
What... is your net address?			sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!jnelson
What... is your favorite colour?		Orange
Right... of you go then!