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From: ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Association for Women in Computing
Message-ID: <1339@ihuxq.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 18-Nov-84 14:26:25 EST
Article-I.D.: ihuxq.1339
Posted: Sun Nov 18 14:26:25 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 19-Nov-84 07:45:23 EST
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 57

--
[Ross Greenberg, responding to Lisa Chabot on special interest clubs]

>> No, equality is not here. Yet. And there are problems with all of our
>> so-called minority groups.  Being a member of two of them, I have my
>> desire for equality, too.  But sitting in circles and beating on a big
>> drum didn't do much then, and still isn't.  Talking about problems
>> within the group that is having that problem is a little mastabatory
>> (does such a word really exist? If so, did I spell it right?), don't
>> you think...

Your desire for equality, indeed.  Like me, technically a minority,
but hardly oppressed.  Wait until anti-Semitism comes back with a
vengeance--you'll be beating a drum quicker than you can say "Meir Kahane."

The effectiveness of a group, of a cause, depends on tactics.  Sitting
in circles may not do much, but sitting in buses and restaurants did.
(Incidentally, Ross, there is such a word as "masturbatory"; no, you
didn't spell it right.)

>> No, you'd be better off trying to integrate yourself into a society that
>> really shouldn't have groups that are formed to advance one group over
>> another.  If instead you feel you must join such groups, then don't
>> complain when a group forms that is designed specifically to advance
>> everyone elses interests EXCEPT YOURS.  And you contradict yourself
>> again: There really are "individual differences" or class differences?
>> If they are individual, then you will join clubs that only have you for
>> a member (how does that Woody Alan/ Groucho Marx joke go?), and then
>> really don't have a need to exist.  If there are class differences, than
>> you have already given up the right for equality, since you have already
>> said: "We are different, and expect to be treated as different." 
>> If you say that, it doesn't mean that you'll be treated better, just
>> different. Different pay scales, career paths, etc.  Don't complain:
>> you have your club to complain to, right?  You'll be sure to pass a
>> resolution at the next scheduled meeting, or will you call a special
>> meeting?
 
Welcome to the 20th Century, Ross.  If we were all tolerant of the
rights of others, perhaps we could all work together on into the
promised land.  Unfortunately, most minorities do need to band
together just to be heard.  And in an uncertain economy, such
rumblings are often interpreted by the folks in power as "If they
get more, I'll get less."  Recognizing class differences does not
mean giving up the right to equality; it simply means acknowledging
that the equality does not exist.  Expect to get treated different?
"So-called" minority?  Sure, ask the Black family that was run out of
a white neighborhood on the west side of Chicago this past week--with
gasoline bombs.
-- 
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