Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!seismo!umcp-cs!flink From: flink@umcp-cs.UUCP (Paul Torek) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: CONSISTENCY? Still waiting... Message-ID: <2167@umcp-cs.UUCP> Date: Sun, 30-Dec-84 11:07:53 EST Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.2167 Posted: Sun Dec 30 11:07:53 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 31-Dec-84 00:21:37 EST Distribution: net Organization: U of Maryland, Computer Science Dept., College Park, MD Lines: 49 [Walter Wego was right] From: mwm@ea.UUCP (No, libertarianism is not anarchy. What differentiates a libertarian >government from an anarchy, and indeed from any statist government, is >that a libertarian government does *not* have the right to initiate >force. It may have a monopoly on force, and on being able to decide >when it will be used, but it may only use force in response to force. The following phrases in you reply are crucial: 1. "does not have [sic--you mean claim] the right to initiate force" 2. "have a monopoly on force, and on being able to decide when it will be used" 1 contradicts 2. QED. From: 87064023@sdcc3.UUCP ({|lit) > Government is characterized by a monopoly of legitimate force in an > area... > ... We do not condone the initial use of > force to solve problems. John Wallner But such a monopoly cannot be obtained without initiation of force. QED. From: stewart@ihldt.UUCP (R. J. Stewart) >As for consistency, libertarian ethics hold that no one has the right to >*initiate* force or fraud against another. ... A government that is >restricted to this role is not contrary to libertarian principles. A government so restricted would not be a government: it would have to allow competing (shall we call them) rights-enforcement organizations to exist, and would therefore not have the requisite monopoly of force. QED. From: J. Bashinsk>i< ...!ucbvax!bashinsk%ucbcory > A GOVERNMENT is an entity which reserves all use of force to itself, > and which uses force to prevent others from using force without > its authorization. > A LIBERTARIAN GOVERNMENT is a government which uses force only in > response to the use of force or fraud by others... ...and is therefore a contradiction in terms. To prevent (or be willing to prevent) other (rights-enforcement) organizations from using force would require the initiation of force. QED. Hoping it's finally sinking in, Paul V Torek, umcp-cs!flink (until 1/11, then back to ihnp4!wucs!wucec1!pvt1047 )