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From: chenr@tilt.FUN (Ray Chen)
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: Re: PCs vs Gods (reposted)
Message-ID: <228@tilt.FUN>
Date: Wed, 30-Jan-85 21:10:36 EST
Article-I.D.: tilt.228
Posted: Wed Jan 30 21:10:36 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 31-Jan-85 03:21:46 EST
References: <2400083@uokvax.UUCP> <3429@ucla-cs.ARPA>
Organization: Princeton University EECS Dept
Lines: 49

> 
>   My objection to this kind of analysis still stands.  If you play your
> ghods this way, they are no different than very powerful NPCs.  Further,
> this treatment just begs the question.  Who is above the "ghods" in this
> kind of scheme?  (Since they clearly have no quantum differences from
> player characters.)
 
Scott, I think your problem is that you are looking at gods as a christian would
(i.e omniscient, omnipotent, etc.) and not as a pagan would.

>   Consider the kinds of powers normally attributed to gods:
> 
>   (1) Creation of the universe.
>   (2) Creator of the human species and/or other living species.
>   (3) Omniscient/Omnipresent.
>   (4) Hears the prayers of all worshippers at all times.
>   (5) Control over death/the afterlife.
> 
>   There is a consistent factor in these powers - that god has absolute
> power over the human domain.  His power is without limit as far as men
> are concerned.  If you accept this principle, then PCs are never going to
> kill a Ghod or his Avatar.  Ever.  It isn't a matter of having more power
> than the Ghod, or catching him when he is weak.  He has absolute power, and
> does what he wants.

Thats the point.  Gods do NOT have unlimited power over the human world.
Look at any set of pagan gods.  While the pantheon has most of those
powers, no one god has all.  Some of the common pantheons, by the way, did NOT
create the universe.  The gods with power before them did.  Historically
speaking, you end up with all-powerful gods when you have monotheism.
There's a big difference, by the way, between control over death (i.e.
a god can kill people) and control over the afterlife.

As for self-imposed restrictions, it doesn't really matter who or what imposes
the restrictions.  The players don't know.  What's important is that the
restrictions are there.  A god usually won't step on you because he's feeling
nasty that century.  As for player defeating gods, there is lots of
precedent in literature for this happening.  This is usually because
somebody had the support of some other god, or more usually because that god
couldn't use all his power.  (Just try that on his home plane on the other
hand...)

Omni* gods can take a lot of fun out of a world because gods like that don't
have to obey any rules and thus can be the extension of the DM's whim -- at
will.  I still claim that a world should be consistent and shouldn't require
frequent intervention by the DM in the form of all-powerful gods.

	Ray Chen
	princeton!tilt!chenr