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From: mike@hpfclp.UUCP (mike)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Exactamoondo!
Message-ID: <13600009@hpfclp.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 17-Jan-85 20:19:00 EST
Article-I.D.: hpfclp.13600009
Posted: Thu Jan 17 20:19:00 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 28-Jan-85 02:12:38 EST
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Nf-From: hpfclp!mike    Jan 24 17:19:00 1985

From: Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes
> Libertarians also seem to think that freedom is merely the absence of
> coercion.  But it seems to me that freedom must include the means or power
> to effect one's will.  A totally paralyzed person hasn't much freedom, 
> even though he isn't coerced.  A poor man is less free than a rich man 
> to do what he wants because he lacks means.  

From: Paul Torek, umcp-cs!flink
> As "The Fonz" would say: EXACTAMOONDO!  Freedom *from* coercion, without
> freedom *to* do anything, is worthless.  What libertarians want, and
> what rational people want, are as different as night and day.

I have never seen so much  package  dealing as between  the  concepts of
political  freedom and the much different  concept of economic  freedom.
They are not  equivalent at all.  Political  freedom is the  inalienable
right of man,  e.g.  the  individual  man, to pursue  whatever  goals he
wishes  so long as he does not  forcibly  interfere  with the  political
freedom of other  individuals.  It is the proper  function of government
to enact laws which  protect this kind of freedom.  Economic  freedom is
the   consequence  of  political   freedom.  A  person  in  the  USA  is
politically  free to start any  legitimate  business he chooses.  To the
degree he is successful  (e.g.  if his goals are rational and he has the
stamina and  efficacy  to achieve  them), is the degree to which he will
enjoy more economic freedom.  Economic freedom is not a given; it has to
be EARNED.  And it cannot be earned if one is not politically  free.  To
negate this fact is to turn  hardworking  individuals  into  sacrificial
animals   whose   work  and  wealth   are   confiscated   and  given  to
non-producers.  It is this kind of economic  freedom that the  Democrats
keep  touting  as a right;  e.g.  a right  to a job, a right to  medical
care,  a right  to a  decent  salary,  a  right  to a  decent  home...ad
infinitum.  Who is to produce the wealth in order for these rights to be
provided?  Blank out!

I always get  disgusted  when I hear  people  claiming  a right to other
people's hard-earned wealth and prosperity.  These people simply wish to
evade the reality  that they are not  competent or  motivated  enough to
PRODUCE  the  wealth  for their own  continued  existence  and thus they
endeavor to loot from those who can.

Michael Bishop
ihnp4!hpfcla!mike-b