Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830713); site klipper.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!teddy!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep
From: biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: FORCE, Democracy and Libertarian
Message-ID: <419@klipper.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 23-Jan-85 12:20:04 EST
Article-I.D.: klipper.419
Posted: Wed Jan 23 12:20:04 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 29-Jan-85 05:52:58 EST
References: <1881@inmet.UUCP> <416@klipper.UUCP> <665@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>
Organization: VU Informatica, Amsterdam
Lines: 52

In article <665@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> mwm@ucbtopaz.UUCP (Mike Meyer) writes:
>In article <416@klipper.UUCP> biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) writes:
>>If one considers the world countries being the owners of all their territory,
>>granting people right to live there as long as they kept to their laws, then
>>the world is a libertarian country (except that countries like the USSR don't
>>give their people a chance to leave, and there is no go[u]vernment.) 
>
>No, the world is an anarchy. The definition I use (which may not correspond
>with any other definition) is that a libertarian society has a final
>arbitrater (which we call a government) for disputes between members, but
>an anarchy has no such arbitrater.
>

Ok, I feel I just am missing too many facts on Libertarianism to be able to
judge it. Here are some questions:
	- Where does the go[u]vernment in Libertaria (generic name for a
		Libertarian country) come from. Is it elected? If so, what
		about the minority that voted against? If not, how then?
	- Is it the go[u]vernment that decides when something is reasonable
		(my neigbo[u]r is infesting my land with sound waves. I am
		a physicist and for my experiments I need *silence*, and
		my neighbo[u]r keeps whispering all the time)? If so, where
		does it get its authority from?
	- Do legal persons (non-natural ones) exist in Libertaria? May I
		start a charity company which will survive me? (Something
		like Nobel, for instance, is that allowed?) Must there be
		natural persons to be held responsible in case something
		goes wrong?

>Ah, but saying "this is my land" isn't sufficient to give you control over
>it in Libertaria. You have to *use* it. When all the land is in use, you
>are out of luck, no matter what system of government you have; you can't
>get any more land without displacing something.
>
>To provide yet another fable, suppose I find some land that is obviously
>unused (no structures, and no roads leading to the area) and homestead it.
>In Libertaria, the land is now mine until I quit using it. In the anarchy
>we have now, the government that claims to own the land will either throw
>me off, or start charging rent (maybe calling it "property tax").
>
>	<mike

But what exactly is *using* land? A person who owns a lot of land and has
other people living on it, doesn't he *need* spare land to provide relax
possibilities, and to secure a future for new-born children?
-- 
							  Biep.
	{seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep

I utterly disagree with  everything  you are saying,  but I 
am prepared to fight to the death for your right to say it.
							--Voltaire