Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dciem.UUCP Path: utzoo!dciem!mmt From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: What is socialism? Message-ID: <1363@dciem.UUCP> Date: Thu, 7-Feb-85 17:57:31 EST Article-I.D.: dciem.1363 Posted: Thu Feb 7 17:57:31 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Feb-85 18:19:23 EST References: <309@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <329@topaz.ARPA> <501@fisher.UUCP> <1340@dciem.UUCP> Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada Lines: 49 Summary: In article josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall) writes: >> I guess the "H" in JoSH stands for Humpty-Dumpty .... Words mean exactly >> what I wish them to mean, no more, no less .... >... >> For what it's worth: to me, a socialist cares about all the people in >> a society, ... Libertarians (as self-defined on this net) care >> only for themselves. > >> Martin Taylor > >Well, there's nothing like castigating someone for something, and >then doing the very thing yourself, as flagrantly as possible... > >You've got your definitions exactly backwards. Socialists care only >for themselves, for the things that matter: Morality, justice, >freedom, power. They put on a front of concern about material >equality--hunks of matter distributed by head count--as a rationalization >for their lust to control, their ivory-tower contempt for the >ability of ordinary people to make their own way in life. > >Libertarians, on the other hand, crave an equality of justice, an >equality of rights, an equality of moral personhood and responsibility. >For this they are willing to put up with the uneven distribution >of material goods that must result. > >--JoSH One of the remarkable things about USENET is the way in which it brings into contact people who inhabit apparently different universes. Communication is sometimes a little difficult across these boundaries, but in the world from which I hail, the foundation of Socialism has always been the concern for ALL people, not just for those with power to help themselves. It is a fundamentally UNselfish foundation for a variety of attempts to realize the philosophy. JoSH thinks that the actions of mad dictators are examples of socialism in action. There have been as many fully socialist soceities (or governments) as there have been libertarian ones. Until I started reading this net, I felt myself to be a libertarian and a socialist, and both were honorable names. Now I feel "libertarian" to be a disgusting epithet for a person whose selfishness knows no bounds and who has a trumped-up excuse for a philosophy to cover his (or her) essentially childish magical view of the world. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsrgv!dciem!mmt