Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihdev.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv From: rjv@ihdev.UUCP (ron vaughn) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: net.singles.js, my final words (forever....) Message-ID: <154@ihdev.UUCP> Date: Mon, 28-Jan-85 22:33:23 EST Article-I.D.: ihdev.154 Posted: Mon Jan 28 22:33:23 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 30-Jan-85 04:43:22 EST Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 128 ok, gang. this is the last thing i'm going to say about the singles.js issue. (loud roar from the net...) when i proposed net.singles.js, i wasn't really serious. (GASP!!) i've already told some of you this in private mail. but i was serious about feeling that jeff was a problem, and i was serious in wanting the debate to come out in public. i didn't expect it to drag on as long as it did, and (again) i apologize for taking up so much of net.singles time/space. i think it has accomplished a few things. i'd like to answer some of your questions/accusations: "has this accomplished anything??" YOU BET!! jeff HAS seemed to tone down his postings lately. this could be a phase, this could the be real thing. he seems now to finally realize that yes, a MAJORITY of net.singles (as far as i or anyone else can tell) are finally fed up with all the stuff we've said we're fed up with. he has even said (from memory) "i'm not doing XXXXXX anymore" referring to his "i'm such a loser" type letters. there has been progress made, and hopefully more to come. "you're cold, heartless, mean, cruel, and uncaring" awww, go suck rocks. do you think jeff got hurt or upset by all of this?? haven't you all realized he THRIVES on the attention. have you seen HIM say "i was really hurt by all the postings."??? hell no, he's been replying, arguing his case. jeff isn't *always* the "sensitive, caring" person you all make him out to be. he can be as thoughtless, and have disregard for net-etiquette as me or the next guy. (e.g. his long drawn out "christianoid" topics in singles everyone got sick of, his blatant counter-attacks on any advice given him etc.) jeff loves this. in many respects the letters saying "i want net.singles because XXXXXX" are some of the best, honest feedback he could get about himself. TRULY caring, sensitive people, like chuqi, were the ones who got hurt/upset. i would never campaign like this against someone like chuqi. i knew right from the start that jeff, on the other hand, wouldn't be offended at all, as long as he's the center of the discussion...... "who made you net-god??" no one. i wanted everyone in net.singles to discuss a net.singles problem, and so i made the issue and issue. turns out the majority of people (stats later) were on my side. you really can't blame me for speaking out on behalf of MOST of the people in the group. remember, i DON'T want a net.singles.js. i think that's stupid, and jeff isn't worth the time or effort (no single individual is...) i'm not trying to run/configure the net, just wanted everyone to hash out the problem with jeff. "who says jeff is a problem. what if YOU'RE the problem, ron??" it wasn't like i pulled this out of the air. most everyone agreed there is a problem with jeff. even the ones who said NO to net.singles.js were normally saying "that isn't the way to solve the problem...". it's sort of funny, half of the people who came to defend jeff put him down as much or more than the people who were AGAINST jeff. remember, i wasn't serious about making singles.js, i wanted all the other reactions from people, trying to see where the group stood on the issue, and i'd get letters like "listen ron, you shit-head, just because jeff is so messed up he couldn't tie his shoe-laces without a sign from god doesn't mean YOU...." those were a riot. so let's face it, jeff is a problem. (maybe WAS, who knows....) if you think I'M a problem, drop me a letter, we'll talk about. propose a net.singles.rjv if you want. "you shouldn't have done this in public" bull. you think jeff would listen to a letter, maybe two from some net people telling him we're ALL sick of his junk?? that's one of his biggest problems, he doesn't listen. this was the ONLY way i could think of to bring the topic out. "just what WAS the final count??" gheez, i wish i could give an exact answer. i have about 30something letters mailed to me, most (all but 5-6) are FOR net.singles.js. some of the letters were from "four people" making one vote. then there were all the people who posted yes/no to the net, but i didn't save all of those. i have been keeping something of a running count in my head, combining letters and postings. i'd say it was about.....errrr... i'd say about 5-1 FOR singles.js. for benefit of the doubt let's say 4-1. that is pretty damn lopsided, and made me feel a lot better. so when i say MOST, i mean MOST people are on my side. not just a small group. i'm not going to post excerpts from letters sent to me or anything. some were REALLY funny, many were mean, and some were almost embarrassing in their praise for me and my proposal. here's where i say THANK YOU to all who responded. THANK YOU! ok, ok, i've gone on long enough. that's about it. jeff seems to have cut back on his......well....you know, *those* type postings (pick one, any one, shuffle it up....don't let me see it). a few people got mad at us "mean, heartles" people, but i hope they don't hold it against us, in light of above info. the groups finally decided "enough is enough", and let it's opinion known, and now maybe some good will come out of it. maybe it's good that us "meanies" reared our ugly head. did you people out there (chuqi, others) actually think the rest of us were all going to sit back and take that??? you people are incredible, i wish i was more like you. on other hand, if you think it's ok to let one person take over a group, and never say anything "just to be polite....." whose being honest?? who's REALLY helping jeff??? just sit there and let him ramble and ramble, never do or say anything, let him wallow in self pity?? i think jeff has really learned something from all of this, a lot more than the "oh leave him alone, let him babble and we just won't pay attention" group taught him. personally, i'm just going to skip over EVERYTHING with jeff's name in it for a while (month or two) and then check back and see if he's cleaned up his act any. if not, i'll just skip over his name for the rest of eternity. if he hasn't straightened out his postings after all this, he never will -- my actions will have been wasted, and i'll just turn my head an pretend i've never heard of him(like half of the group is doing now). i'd recommend the rest of the group who is not pleased with jeff's group hogging do the same. there have been rumors of a jeff mailing list, where you subscribe and become one of a group who discuss jeff's problems with him or whatever. if jeff likes the idea, and it satisfies his thirst for attention, (enough to clean up his act in singles) i'm all for it. only on a great net like this could a group rise up and say "i'm mad as hell, and i'm not going to take it any more!" (then again, only on a great net like this could such a yucchhhhy problem occur in the first place. oh well...), signing off on this topic for GOOD, ron vaughn ...!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv ps: for all of you who were SERIOUS about net.singles.js, i'm sorry if i lead you on or got your hopes up. but if the problem fixes itself, (hope hopehopehope), we won't NEED the group. it will be YOUR backing that helped solve the problem, and i think each and every one of you. SALUTE! pps: if you wrote to me discussing all of this and i didn't reply, i hope this answered some of your questions. my mailbox hath runneth over, and so has my schedule at work. i appreciate all input... (I WILL Reply To The Person Who Was Upset Over My Lack Of Capitals, Soon As I Get Time B-)