Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: Notesfiles $Revision: 1.6.2.17 $; site ccvaxa.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!preece From: preece@ccvaxa.UUCP Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Room 317 Message-ID: <47800002@ccvaxa.UUCP> Date: Wed, 30-Jan-85 16:44:00 EST Article-I.D.: ccvaxa.47800002 Posted: Wed Jan 30 16:44:00 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 31-Jan-85 07:28:05 EST References: <313@decwrl.UUCP> Lines: 58 Nf-ID: #R:decwrl:-31300:ccvaxa:47800002:000:2988 Nf-From: ccvaxa!preece Jan 30 15:44:00 1985 >Let the ASSHOLES rant about 'emotionalizing' the issue. As if somehow >emotions were invalid or not part of the process. I'll believe they have >really thought about it and believe what they say when I see them carry >the baby and put it in the bucket. ----------------------- Well, YOUR emotions are involved in what YOU believe, but I'm not sure I see why they should be important to me or to the law. As to what's in the bucket, regardless of what it looks like, it is qualitatively different from what I would consider to be a baby. ----------------------- > ...This contrasted with the pain of the >situtation, with the dim lighting which was purposed for this 'type' of >procedure. Such a darkening, which opposes the normal bright lighting for >optimum visibility and safety, brings to mind Ephesians 5:11-13: 'Have nothing >to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is >shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything >exposed by the light becomes visible.' I know that scripture now, but didn't >consider it then. ----------------------- Oh, come on. If you haven't had any exposure to modern birthing practice, I suppose that's not your fault, but the preferred environment for birthing these days is a room as much like a home environment as possible, with low light levels. This is for both mother's and neo-nate's comfort. The former would still apply in the situation you describe. Is the birthing room where my two children were born a place of shame because its lights were turned down? Scripture, whatever its value to you, is totally irrelevant to the argument. ----------------------- >her mother who stood tall and very sophisticated in the corner, staring out >the window, chain-smoking cigarettes. ----------------------- I would question the sophistication of anyone seen chain-smoking, but that's another argument entirely... ----------------------- >I remember thinking how pitiful the 15 year old girl was - feeling that >abortion was not the solution for her, and feeling responsible for her pain, >rather than feeling I had somehow helped to releive it. ----------------------- I didn't see anything in there to indicate that the girl was pained by the result rather than by the situation of being pregnant in the first place. A first trimester fetus is not alive in any reasonable sense of the word and has not been alive. It is incapable of life on its own and has no right to the use of its mother's body for external life support. I think abortions are sad for a lot of reasons: they cause anguish for the man and woman involved, some result in health problems or death (fewer than if the pregnancies went to term, more than if the pregnancies never started), they often cause problems in relationships between the woman and her parents and her mate. Sure you feel sad when you see a dead fetus; it LOOKS like a baby. But it's not. scott preece ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!preece