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From: mag@whuxlm.UUCP (Gray Michael A)
Newsgroups: net.abortion,net.women
Subject: Re: Clearing up my pro-abortion argument
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Date: Sun, 3-Feb-85 14:08:27 EST
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Posted: Sun Feb  3 14:08:27 1985
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From Larry Cirpiani:  ( > )
> 
> I see how I've confused matters by not being precise.  I'll start with
> the definitions that I've been working with.  These may differ between us.
> (This will be a bit dry.)
> 
> I hope this clears up what I'm saying.  Please point out any unstated
> assumptions you find.  [Moved from end of article]
> 
I'll mark all the unstated assumptions below.
> a) A human is any being that has the capacity to think.  
> 	(Aristotle defined man as a rational animal.)
This sounds like argument from authority.  By "think", do you mean
"think conceptually"? 
> b) A homo-sapien is a being with a particular kind of gene set.
Close enough, although some humans have extra chromosomes, and I think they're
still human.  People afflicted with mongolism are one type.
> c) Rights are guarantees that force will not be used against a being.
Where do the guarantees come from?  The existence of a guarantee assumes
someone guaranteeing.  By force, do you mean all force, or just the
initiation of force?
> d) Abortion is the forced termination of a pregnancy.
I thought it was voluntary termination.  What it is definition of "force"
in this sentence.  Is it the same as the one in c)?  Are you referring
to force against the fetus?  Wouldn't normal birth qualify as a forced
termination of a pregnancy with terms this loose?
> e) Only humans have rights.
Please define what you mean by right.  Natural rights?  Legal rights?
If "natural", what is a natural right?  From where does it devolve?
If your answer is c), please clarify.
> f) Humans have rights because they have the capacity to think.
See the comments on c) and e).
> g) One right humans have is, the right to life.
Ditto as for the above. Where does this right come from?
> 1) Homo-sapiens that have the capacity to think can create a homo-sapien
> without the capacity to think.  i.e. humans can create a non-humans.
> 	[not important in this note].
You seem to sometimes use the word human to denote a species, and sometimes
to denote a being with the capacity to think.  Please define more clearly.
> 2) Homo-sapiens without the capacity to think are not human -> homo-sapiens
> without the capacity to think don't have rights.
Why aren't they human?  
> 3) The capacity to think is shown by the presence of alpha/beta brain waves
> in homo-sapiens.  Homo-sapien fetuses gain such waves at approximately
> the 28th week after conception -> fetuses gain the capacity to think
> at approximately the 28th week after conception -> fetuses are humans
> after approximately the 28th week after conception.
Since it's "approximately" the 28th week (I don't know), what sort of
a margin of safety would you advocate? (if any)
> 4) Fetuses are human after they have the capacity to think.  Fetuses
> are not human until they have the capacity to think.
> 
> 5) Fetuses may be aborted if they are not human.  Fetuses may not be
> aborted if they are human.
What does humanness have to do with it?  

Is the following a proper paraphrase of your argument?

	If a fetus can't think, it's OK to kill it, since it's
	not human.  Only humans have a right to life.  If a fetus
	can think, then it's human, has a right to life, and must
	be protected.

The above ignores any question of the any rights of the mother, and seems
to advocate prohibiting abortions even if the mother's life is in danger.
Is this your intent?  It is often not apparent until late in a pregnancy
if the mother is endangered.  Also, some severe fetal defects are not
detectable until late in a pregnancy.

If anyone has any doubt, I am pro-choice, without respect to how much
of the gestation period has elapsed.  I think that abortions are usually
undesirable and tragic,  but I do not wish to force others to that view.

Mike Gray, BTL WH