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From: dave@circadia.UUCP (dave)
Newsgroups: net.news,net.followup
Subject: Re: STARGATE (READ THIS!)
Message-ID: <133@circadia.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 26-Jan-85 19:15:50 EST
Article-I.D.: circadia.133
Posted: Sat Jan 26 19:15:50 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 4-Feb-85 04:35:07 EST
References: <504@vortex.UUCP>
Organization: Quest Research Inc., Burnsville, MN
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Xref: watmath net.news:3093 net.followup:4400

It is unfortunate that Frank Adrian chose to make his appeal in
such an emotional and offensive manner.  The points he made may
well be overshadowed by the language he used to state them.

I realize that the promoters of STARGATE have nothing but good
intentions in developing the idea, but as Mr. Adrian points out,
there may be a danger of losing something important in the quest
for a better method of transmitting the news.  Usenet, as it now
exists, is something perhaps unique in the world:  an uncensored,
world-wide, open forum.  It has become more than just a method
for a bunch of programmers to exchange ideas on an operating system.
Where else can one discuss the deployment of cruise missles
directly with the people most affected?  Where else can one discuss
his political or moral convictions with a more diverse audience?
This network, or one like it, has the potential to defuse one
of the most potent weapons of tyranny:  censorship.  It would be
a shame to lose this aspect of the net.

So, with this prologue, here are some random comments on
Lauren's posting:

> ... I've had several people
> already suggest to me that I or Usenix should take legal action
> against the author of the message, under one or more of several
> strong legal grounds.

I would be interested in hearing what legal grounds were suggested,
Mr. Adrian didn't mention any names in his article, so how did he
harm you personally?

> If the hassle level about this stuff continues to rise, I will pull
> out and I will recommend to the satellite carrier that they pull
> out as well.

If you don't want to do what you are doing, don't do it.  I appreciate
the work that you and others have done in getting the net up and
running, but when you are dealing with a group of thousands of
individuals (and individualists), you can't expect NOT to get
hassled when you try to do ANYTHING.  I don't think it helps matters
to threaten to take your ball and not play anymore, just because
everyone doesn't agree with you.

> The ONLY way stargate can work is through moderation.

Why is this?  The post office and AT&T don't seem to be getting
sued by people using their services for slander, or even illegal
purposes.  Why should another carrier get in trouble for data
that they have no knowledge or control over?  (I realize that in
the real world, legal matters don't have to be based on rational
reasons...I'm just pointing out that it doesn't seem to be as
cut-and-dried as you make it.)

I'm not against moderation for the majority of the news groups;
net.sources or net.unix etc. can't be hurt much by it as long
as the moderators only delete messages that would cause legal
problems.  I would be totally against moderation of groups such
as net.politics or net.religion though.  Perhaps a compromise could
be made with the backbone sites in which these groups would
be transmitted normally, while other groups could go through STARGATE.

I should point out that, technically, I think STARGATE is a
wonderful idea...it is only on the issue of moderation (censorship)
that I have some reservations.

-- 

Dave Messer   ...inhp4!stolaf!umn-cs!circadia!dave