Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site spar.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcs!lsuc!pesnta!amdcad!decwrl!spar!ellis From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish,net.nlang Subject: Re: Writing from right to left Message-ID: <71@spar.UUCP> Date: Wed, 6-Feb-85 20:27:44 EST Article-I.D.: spar.71 Posted: Wed Feb 6 20:27:44 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Feb-85 20:28:18 EST References: <2050@pegasus.UUCP> <128@ihn5l.UUCP> <443@hou2f.UUCP> <5849@rochester.UUCP> Reply-To: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA Lines: 89 Xref: utcs net.religion.jewish:1356 net.nlang:2486 >Japanese and Chinese write bottom to top (although modern times have seen >variations, such as top to bottom, particularly in commercial signs) due >to scrolls. Referring to `Chinese Calligraphy' (Chiang Yee, Harvard University Press), I can find NO example that runs bottom-to-top, and that's going back to approximately 2000 B.C., when the characters were etched into animal bones. Top-to-bottom, with columns arranged right-to-left is the classic way of writing Chinese characters; the left-to-right with rows running top-to bottom, European-style, is also common. ======================================================================== Recently I've become interested in Hebrew. Unfortunately, I've never seen anyone write Hebrew characters, so my letters are quite ugly. Are there any general rules for drawing the script? Do you usually start at the upper left or the upper right of a letter? Take, for instance, the word \b're:shiyth\. Would most people write its strokes in the order that I have guessed? 1 1 5 3 1 3 1 1 1 ######## ## #### ### ### # ### ######### ####### ########## ##### #### #### ### ## #### ########## ######### ########## ##### #### #### ### #### ##### ########## ######## ######### #### #### #### ### ##### #### ######### ######## 3 # #### ## ## ## ##### ## # ## # # # # # ####### 2 # # # # # # # # 4###### # # # # 2 # ## # # ###### # # # # # # # # ###### # # ## # 6 # ## ## ###### # # ## # #4 ### ### #### # 2 5###4 # ######### #### ### # #########3 #### # ######## #### ## # ########## #### # ######## #### # # ########## #### 2 2####### 5### 4 2 4######### Of course, I'm writing the letters from right to left! ======================================================================== Also, I have real problems with the pronunciation. To the best I can determine, Ancient Hebrew had the sound system below: CONSONANTS labial dental alveolar velar gut. glottal unvoiced p/ph t/th T k/kh q pey taw teyth kaph qowph voiced b/bh d/dh g/gh beyth daleth giymel u.affricates ts tsadhey u.fricatives s sh x h samekh shiyn xeyth hey v.fricatives z ? : zayin ?ayin :aleph l r leemedh reysh {The pairs _/_h seem to have been allophonic in Biblical times; I don't know about today. Also \shiyn\ can represent another `s' sound, about which I know little. ?ayin and :aleph are a wild guess in this chart..} VOWELS/SEMIVOWELS/DIPHTHONGS y w iy i u uw ow oo ee ey o e aa a ..and finally the the schwa (') with its 3 varieties (E A O) I'd be interested in knowing anything about these sounds either in ancient times or today, particularly ayin, aleph, heth, he, qoph and teth (?ayin, :aleph, xeyth, hey, qowph, teyth in the phonetic representation here). I've never seen a text that was clear on these points! -michael