Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site opus.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxb!mhuxn!mhuxm!mhuxj!houxm!whuxlm!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!nbires!opus!rcd From: rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn) Newsgroups: net.pets Subject: re: unniceness (squirting) Message-ID: <1052@opus.UUCP> Date: Fri, 25-Jan-85 05:48:16 EST Article-I.D.: opus.1052 Posted: Fri Jan 25 05:48:16 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 28-Jan-85 06:10:41 EST References: <133@magic.ARPA> Distribution: net Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO Lines: 80 Let me see if I can sort out some of the squirt-vs-shout difficulty. I seem not to have gotten thru on the previous try... > Scolding is verbal. Shooting with a water pistol is physical violence. Too bad "squirting with a sprayer" has to be transmogrified to use "shooting" and "pistol". It improves the emotional content, of course, but contributes nothing to the discussion...and the phrase "violence" is present to add inflammatory effect. It is physical ACTION. Consider that scolding is often (not always) accompanied by motion toward the cat, which is regarded as a challenge (first stage of attack). Consider that the scolding must be in an unusual tone of voice or it won't get any attention. > > 3. Water is harmless to the cat. On the other hand, cats have > > VERY sensitive ears, and careless scolding... > Water is not harmless, ref previous messages. I said scolding, not > shouting. It sounds like you're envisioning someone in a fit of temper > screaming at a cowering cat. Try envisioning someone saying, "No, no", in > a quiet, disapproving tone of voice, like civilized folks use. (Take the innuendo about who's civilized and stuff it alongside your misconception of physical violence. Sorry, but I'm not good at taking a combination of misinformation and indirect insults. I care more about the cats than about the person to whom I'm replying.) The objective is to find a means of discipline which won't cause harm even if one DOES become frustrated/angry with the cat. Water IS harmless unless you force it into the cat's eyes or ears--any method of discipline can be abused. Moreover, water IS a recommended means of discipline. > > 4. Squirting causes the cat to associate the undesired activity > > with an unpleasant result, but not necessarily (or strongly) with > > you... > > My cats are certainly smart enough so that they'd know where the water came > from. I've never had a cat "turn mean", probably because I don't carry > on to the entremes you seem to envision in dealing with cats. More nasty innuendo. You don't know me, nor do you know any of our cats. I haven't had a cat "turn mean" either. We don't carry on to extremes, and we've successfully raised a LOT of cats. I've seen a lot of show cats of various breeds, and I've had a chance to observe how factors such as breed and owner training affect the cat's disposition. (And, although I'm only speaking for myself here, I'm also drawing on the experience of my wife, who's been a highly respected professional breeder and cat judge for many years.) It is possible to make the cat associate squirting with you instead of a mostly unknown source, but you have to work at it. Cats are not that smart per se, but they're good at picking up cues from their owners. Most longhair breeds are pretty docile and easy to train. However, if you've never seen a cat turn mean, or have a tendency to a mean streak, get some experience with Korats or Russian Blues. They tend to be temperamental, and a little mistake in training can create a real headache. If you want a challenge for training, try Abyssinians. They're friendly almost to a fault, but they're about the most active and inquisitive cats you'll ever find--and they tend to like water. The squirt bottle works nonetheless. > >Please don't inflict your ethical judgments on other people, especially by > >innuendo, if you don't know anything about the issue. > > I sure will, if I think they're about to cause unnecessary discomfort or > worse to an animal. As for innuendo, I thought my opinion was pretty > obvious..... ...From the beginning of the original posting: > >> The ethics of tormenting cats > >> with water pistols I will refrain from commenting on. That's the innuendo. You seem determined to inflict your opinions on others even though, as I have tried to point out, they are substantially incorrect. You claim to be concerned about the welfare of cats, but you seem more interested in an emotional defense of your opinions. -- Dick Dunn {hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd (303)444-5710 x3086 ...Keep your day job 'til your night job pays.