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From: orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Use, Property, and Fable:Libertaria
Message-ID: <449@whuxl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 23-Jan-85 17:53:41 EST
Article-I.D.: whuxl.449
Posted: Wed Jan 23 17:53:41 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 24-Jan-85 19:29:35 EST
References: <1881@inmet.UUCP> <416@klipper.UUCP> <665@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>
Organization: Bell Labs
Lines: 37

> 
> To provide yet another fable, suppose I find some land that is obviously
> unused (no structures, and no roads leading to the area) and homestead it.
> In Libertaria, the land is now mine until I quit using it. In the anarchy
> we have now, the government that claims to own the land will either throw
> me off, or start charging rent (maybe calling it "property tax").
> 	<mike

This is certainly a fable! Except, I believe, for parts of Alaska which
are still available for homesteading, where is one to find land in this
country that is not claimed by somebody?  Worse yet, in this industrial
society, where is one to find factories or machinery unclaimed by 
anybody?  Certainly there are some places without roads or structures,
that are owned either by the government or private individuals.
Are you going to go in and try to live on this property?
Let me tell you a little story.  There was once a small plot of land
that was unused on a certain University.  So nature-minded students
went in and decided to make a little "People's Park" out of the property.
Plant some trees, and generally make it a pleasant place to commune.
Eventually our dear friend, the then Governor of California, Ronald Reagan
(such a *nice* man!!)sent in helicopters and tear gas to remove students
from their nice liberated Park.  Unfortunately this is not a fable,
this is what actually happened.
This is nothing new.  It is what has usually happened when people have
challenged the inviolate right of property.
Let's not talk about pleasant fables we can think up in our heads.
It is very easy to imagine all sorts of pleasant fictions.  How do
Libertarians propose to bring about such a restructuring of traditional
notions of property without immense struggle?
How do you determine what constitutes "use" of property that thereby
legitimates or negates the right to property?  If I have a car hanging
around that I no longer use, does that mean somebody else is free to use it?
And then such use constitutes a valid claim for ownership?
I am glad to see Libertarians beginning to shed an absolute defense of
property.  I hope discussion continues in this vein.
       tim sevener   whuxl!orb