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From: orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: freedom, democracy, etc:Reply to cliff
Message-ID: <457@whuxl.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 29-Jan-85 10:35:54 EST
Article-I.D.: whuxl.457
Posted: Tue Jan 29 10:35:54 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 30-Jan-85 06:54:22 EST
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> > But it isn't really ignored by the Libertarians, it is a central point of
> > most of their arguments even though they refuse to admit it.  The major
> > thing most Libertarians seem to rail about is paying taxes.
> 
> Bullsh*t!  I rail about conscription!  I rave about victimless crimes!  I
> shout about censorship!  Pretty clever article (summed up as:  Libertarians
> only complain about taxes...taxes are only one loss of liberty...libertarians
> don't really care about liberty), too bad you couldn't have made it 99999 lines
> long; you would really have made a great point then.
> 
> 	--Cliff [Matthews]
> 	{purdue, cmcl2, ihnp4}!lanl!unmvax!cliff
> 	{csu-cs, pur-ee, convex, gatech, ucbvax}!unmvax!cliff
> 	4744 Trumbull S.E. - Albuquerque  NM  87108 - (505) 265-9143

Perhaps I am wrong, but I have noticed a great concern with taxes as
"theft" and so forth by Libertarians.  I guess one reason that the
right to tax has been important in my own arguments is that I agree
with removing victimless crimes from the legal code, preventing censorship,
and abolishing draft registration.  But I cannot agree with arguments
that there is no justification for taxation, or other such group fees
as union dues.  
I also notice that your response totally ignores the major subtance
of my arguments on taxation as some sort of "absolute infringement of
freedom".
Perhaps I am also ignoring the more purist ideology of Libertarians
versus the use the power elite is likely to make of such ideology.
While it is nice that some Libertarians on the net have admitted that
not *all* property ownership is legitimate or worthy of defense
that is a point that has only been conceded under my own questioning.
It seems to me that Libertarians have not presented any means for
removing current inequalities of wealth and control of property.
Those people who own America just *love* an ideology which they can
use to justify their own control of property and remove any governmental
or other public impediments to their absolute control of such property.
One need only look at Weber's "Protestant Ethic" to see how a doctrine
which starts out as primarily religious or spiritual can quickly become
subverted to justify a rising elite.  Of course, I will concede that
Marxism has been no different in being used to justify a group's
claim to power.
But it seems to me that Libertarians as a whole are quite naive.
  tim sevener   whuxl!orb