Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830713); site snow.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!mcvax!ukc!qtlon!flame!ubu!snow!rjc From: rjc@snow.UUCP (R.caley) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Orphaned Response Message-ID: <346@snow.UUCP> Date: Wed, 30-Jan-85 07:35:40 EST Article-I.D.: snow.346 Posted: Wed Jan 30 07:35:40 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 4-Feb-85 04:16:54 EST References: <-25200@gargoyle.UUCP> <13600008@hpfclp.UUCP> Organization: Computer Science Department, Warwick University, UK Lines: 86 > From: mike@hpfclp.UUCP (mike) > Newsgroups: net.politics > Subject: Re: Orphaned Response > Message-ID: <13600008@hpfclp.UUCP> > Date: Wed, 16-Jan-85 00:28:00 GMT > Article-I.D.: hpfclp.13600008 > How can you believe that Socialism is better than Capitalism? ^ | You are on **VERY** shakey ground using this word in a political (economic..) argument - define "better" and I'll take you seriously! I wont attempt to reply to all this article (130+ lines) lifes too short :-) Here is the conclusion:- > That is not the aim of Socialism. Socialism is a society where the > individual has no rights, property or otherwise. And without property > rights no other rights are possible. If a person does not own or is not > justly compensated for the product of his work, then he does not own his > life. He is a slave. Capitalism works by the virtue of property rights > and by the virtue of free-market competition that demands the best from > each of us. It works because those who have ability and work hard are > rewarded and those who are lazy and imcompetent are not. But Capitalism > can only work in a politically free climate that holds individual rights > as its highest ideal. It's either/or. Either you have Capitalism and a > society of free individuals or you have a caste society of the rulers > and the workers. The caste society, unfortunately, is the predominate > heritage of the human race. Socialism is the society for brainless > insects and emotion-driven savages. Capitalism is for the intelligent, > free, rational human being. > > A is A. > > Michael Bishop > ihnp4!hpfcla!mike-b Point 1) Remember in what follows I am a strong *ANTI* marxist but I have read quite a bit (well it's better than working) Point 2) Socialism is a society where the rights of the individual are protected by a strong government which has power to control the population in order to keep them free (Sounds like the western democrocies rather than the extreme right wing USSR) ie the paternalistic state. Point 3) Without the right of property *ALL* other rights are unaffected and in some ways less likely to be userped (how do you spell that?) by others.This is the only bit of Marxist (rather simplistic) doctrine which I aggree with. Point 4) Capitalism works in any society where the individual can be rewarded for doing something.You don't need to be free to be rewarded (Theres a good boy uncle Adolf will buy you a sweet for turning in those nasty Jews). Point 5) Calling your political opponents brainless insects is not exactly the sign of advanced ceribral activity. Point 6) Before flameing me read [a] Point 1 above [2] The comunist manifesto (Marx & Engles) and if you can [3] My posting on Anarchism on the net . Three quotes 1) Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4 from this all else follows. 2) Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains 3) We hold these truthes to be self evident,that all men are born equal..... [ These may be slight misquotes my memory is not good on other peoples dogma ] I don't think I need to say where they come from. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the beginning was a flame ...... " Paul Kantner. .......... mcvax!ukc!flame!ubu!snow!rjc [ Any opinions in the above crawled in while I wasn't looking ]