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From: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Christian Jews
Message-ID: <77@unc.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 18-Jan-85 22:53:55 EST
Article-I.D.: unc.77
Posted: Fri Jan 18 22:53:55 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 23-Jan-85 08:35:20 EST
References: <ittral.500>
Reply-To: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Organization: CS Dept., U. of N. Carolina at Chapel Hill
Lines: 79
Summary: 

In article <ittral.500> pellegri@ittral.UUCP (Dan Pellegrino) writes:
>
>This is the way I see it.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>A Christian, by definition of the term, is a follower of Christ.  Jews are a
>*race* of people chosen by God.
>
>Heredity, lineage, etc. is of tremendous importance in scripture.  The covenant
>was with Abraham and his *descendants*.  These things indicate that people are 
>born as Jews and, furthermore, each is from a specific division or tribe of 
>Jews.  (This doesn't mean Orthodox vs. Reformed, etc. but, rather, Tribe of 
>Benjamin, Tribe of Judah, etc.)  
>
>Although a person could convert to Judaism, a person that is born a Jew is a 
>Jew.  I have known a number of people that profess to be Jews but have no 
>religious side to their lives at all.  Some do not even acknowledge the 
>existence of God, much less keep his commandments.  Yet they tell me they are 
>Jews.  This, plus many scriptures, lead me to believe that those born as Jews 
>are simply members of a race or genealogy of people chosen and separated by God
>from the rest of the human population.  Hereditarily, all are either Jews or 
>non-Jews (gentiles).  (Note: This is not intended to be an oversimplification 
>of an important part of God's plan, nor is it intended to refute the fact that 
>many Jews are very serious about their spiritual lives.)
>
>A Christian, however, had to become a Christian.  I don't believe that one can 
>be born a Christian because to truly be a Christian one must be a follower of
>Christ and, therefore, one must be old enough to have an understanding of what
>following Christ entails.  True Christianity is something that each individual
>must attain. 
>
>An individual can be born into the tribe of Benjamin, for example, - born a 
>member of a race that God set aside long ago - born a Jew, and they will alway 
>have their genealogy, their "Jewish blood".  They are born and forever a Jew.
>
>Now, if one of this chosen race - a Jew - believes that Jesus is the promised
>Messiah of God and is a follower of Jesus as the Christ, then that person is 
>*also* a Christian.  That person is a Christian Jew.
>
>
>Dan Pellegrino (born of Italian descent and a gentile whether I like it or not.

Dan, your posting is basically correct, though misleading in parts.
I will try to clarify the Jewish postion:

The terms "race" and "geneology" have quite different meanings.
Geneology refers to a person's ancestry, whereas in this country,
race has connotations of physical characteristics.  Originally, the Jews
were racially identical to the other peoples in the middle eastern region.

Throughout the centuries, Jews have accepted converts in every land
in which they resided.  Today, there is no single Jewish race.
For example, most people would consider the Jews of Ethiopia
to be mostly negro.

Jews are, however, a geneology, a people.  One can be born a Jew
(as one can be a native U.S. citizen), or one can be a convert
(as one can become a naturalized American).  The descendants of
converts are Jews by birth (as the children of immigrants are
considered to be native Americans).

The significance of being "chosen" is that Jews have the added
responsibility to obey the laws revealed to Moses, due to the
covenant (contract or promise) between God and Abraham.
Jews believe that it is easier for a gentile to please God,
because less is expected of them.  Thus, there is a Jewish proverb 
that says something like, "In the day of judgement,
the rightous gentiles shall share in the highest honors."

This is why Jews feel no need to proselytyze.  Their mission
is to lead the gentiles into rightousness by providing a good example.
Of course, a Jew who neglects his duty (or even worse,
renounces it) is doubly punished (a Jew should know better).
And a gentile who voluntarily takes up this burden and becomes a Jew
is doubly blessed (Christians will disagree, of course).

			Frank Silbermann

THERE IS NOTHING THE WORLD HATES MORE THAN A GOOD EXAMPLE -- Mark Twain