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From: seifert@mako.UUCP (Snoopy)
Newsgroups: net.singles,net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: fornication and Christianity
Message-ID: <543@mako.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 27-Jan-85 14:24:21 EST
Article-I.D.: mako.543
Posted: Sun Jan 27 14:24:21 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 30-Jan-85 04:34:13 EST
References: <343@uvm-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: seifert@mako.UUCP (Snoopy)
Followup-To: net.religion.christian
Organization: The Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
Lines: 79
Keywords: Christianity adultery fornication
Xref: watmath net.singles:5671 net.religion.christian:117
Summary: further discussion on whether Christianity outlaws fornication

Followups to net.religion.christian only, please.  Thank you.

Quotes edited for brevity.  See the referenced article for the full text.

> > ...but what about fornication, this is just as big a sin in God's eyes
> > as adultery.
> >
> >	By the way anyone who calls themselves a Christian and thinks
> > its ok to have sexual intercourse with anyone other then their husband
> > or wife, better find a Bible fast and start reading.
> >
> >		Frank Morrell
>
>      This article is by Bruce Malina and appears in Volume 14 of the
> journal Novum Testamentum.  The title is "Does Porneia Mean Fornication?"
> Porneia is the Greek word that is usually translated as fornication or
> sexual immorality in the New Testament.
> 
>     What makes a given line of conduct proneia, hence
>     unlawful, is that it is expressly prohibited by Torah -- both oral
>     and written.  Now it would appear that in no case is pre-betrothal,
>     non-commercial, non-cultic heterosexual intercourse (what is called
>     "fornication" today) prohibited!  The obvious reason for this is that
>     there is no injunction in the Torah prohibiting such "fornication".
> 
>        Pre-betrothal, pre-marital, non-commercial sexual intercourse
>     between a man and a woman is nowhere considered a moral crime in
>     the Torah.  ... there is no evidence in traditional or contemporary
>     usage of the word porneia that takes it to mean pre-betrothal,
>     pre-marital, heterosexual intercourse of a non-cultic or non-
>     commercial nature, i.e. what we call "fornication" today.
> -- 
> 		Stephen J. Hartley
> 	decvax!dartvax!uvm-gen!uvm-cs!hartley

Quite interesting!!!!

Indeed, it seems that there *isn't* any rule against fornication
in the Torah/Old Testament.  Now, considering the number of rules
contained there, and the amount of detail, and the importance of
all these rules, a rule against fornication certainly couldn't
have been *accidently* left out.  No way, Jack.  Thus I must
conclude that fornication was perfectly acceptable according to
the Torah/Old Testament.

Anyone who disagrees, please speak up!

Now, one of the major things in Christianity is that we are
no longer under the Law.  That we no longer have to worry about
all those rules.  Ok so far?

For the moment, assume that the greek *was* correctly translated.
If so, then what hat did Paul pull out this "no fornication" stuff
from?  Freeing us from the Law, and then setting up rules against
things which were previously ok, just doesn't compute.

On the other hand, if the greek *has* been incorrectly translated,
it seems that quite a number of people have incorrectly translated
it the same way !?  How could this be?

It appears to me, that Paul isn't so much laying down a new law,
but mentioning an existing one, and assuming that everyone knows what
he's talking about.  If so, then where did this existing law come from,
if not the Torah/Old Testament?

Examples of sexual immorality mentioned are never "just" fornication,
they're always adultery or incest, or some such. (correct me if I'm
wrong)  Also, it's interesting that Satan tempted Jesus with food
and power, but not sex.

I'd like to see some discussion on this!!

Followups to net.religion.christian only, please.  Thank you.

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