Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site druxo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!drutx!druxo!nap
From: nap@druxo.UUCP (Parsons)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: [PORNOGRAPHY] Parsons reply to Simon]
Message-ID: <794@druxo.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 31-Jan-85 09:51:34 EST
Article-I.D.: druxo.794
Posted: Thu Jan 31 09:51:34 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 2-Feb-85 00:25:00 EST
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
Lines: 59

Parsons:
>> Pornography (even in its mildest forms) is degrading simply because it
>> reduces sexual *people* to sexual *objects*.  Human sex, as such, is not
>> degrading--it involves whole people in whole relationships.  Anything less
>> IS degrading, and pornography is certainly something less.  (So are many
>> sexual relationships within marriage, by the way.)

Simon:
> I disagree. As much of the discussion in net.social seems to agree, it is
> entirely possible to have healthy relationships with potential sexual
> partners without actual sexual contact.

Parsons:
I whole-heartedly agree.

Simon:
>                                          It is also possible, although
> arguably not as satisfying, to have sexual contact with a partner without
> building a relationship.

Parsons:
Again, I agree.

...

Simon:
>                                                   In the absence of
> procreation, it is therefore possible to separate sex from a relationship.

Parsons:
Of course, it is possible.

Simon:
> Whether that is satisfying to the partners is a matter of psychology
> and sociology that is outside this argument. Degradation does *not*
> enter it anywhere, and is therefore not relevant.

Parsons:
This is where I disagree.  I'm not, in this discussion, concerned with
satisfaction, etc.  I'm saying that one of the differences between fully
human sex and a lesser kind of sex is the context of a relationship.
Anything less than what I have called "fully human sex" is, therefore,
in my opinion, degrading.

Obviously, we are in an area of *opinion*.  I am simply explaining why I
find pornography in all of its forms, degrading.  Others may perceive
"human" as something other than I do.

By the way, it seems to me that the greatness of the net is that it has
tremendous potential for enabling us to understand a variety of points of
view.  I, for one, am not nearly as interested in convincing someone that I
am right (hence, they are wrong?) as I am in being understood and
understanding other people's points of view.  Once we are sure we
understand each other, I have no problem with saying that we disagree and
dropping it.  Of course, discussion should continue until we do
understand.

Nancy Parsons
AT&T ISL