Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830713); site snow.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!houxm!whuxlm!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!seismo!mcvax!ukc!qtlon!flame!ubu!snow!req From: req@snow.UUCP (Russell Quin) Newsgroups: net.games.frp Subject: Re: PCs vs Gods Message-ID: <356@snow.UUCP> Date: Mon, 4-Feb-85 20:55:08 EST Article-I.D.: snow.356 Posted: Mon Feb 4 20:55:08 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Feb-85 06:16:32 EST References: <2400083@uokvax.UUCP> <3429@ucla-cs.ARPA> <75@gitpyr.UUCP> Organization: Computer Science Department, Warwick University, UK Lines: 54 There have been a number of articles posted here on the subject of Player Characters doing Heroic Battle against Gods/Ghods/Deities/Dieties[sic]. (I'll call them Ghods to save confusion with Christian/Jewish/whatever Gods). So here are a few pseudo-random thoughts on the subject... I have found myself agreeing with many of the approaches that GM's say that they take, but there is some problem with the theology.... It depends on what you mean by "Ghod". If you view the Ghods as imminent, palpable entities, as creatures who breathe the air and live and die as mortals do, then it is not unreasonable that they be susceptible to physical violence. ... And thor put down his mighty hammer, but Alas!, he did put it down even upon his great and worshipful foot and did cry out in pain, and there were many great winds all over the World. ... :-) Perhaps even PCs could become Ghods in this sense, if the GM lets the campaign get sufficiently high-level (but see other recent net.games.frp articles :-) ). There doesn't seem to be any justification for making a distinction between PCs and NPCs in this respect; an interesting HighLevelCampaign (HLC) could involve a race between PCs and NPCs to become Ghods and form a powerful religion. Although I'm not sure I'd like to write -- or run -- subsequent scenarios!! If, however, you view the Ghods as intangible manifestations of ultimate existence, power, virtue or , then it becomes completely meaningless to talk about <>, because they exist on a different level of reality. You could no more say ``I tickled Allah's left big toe yesterday'' than ``We killed a Ghod''. These ``MetaGhods'' may be reflected in some way in the nature of the universe, or in the way in which magical effects are made manifest, for example. It is possible that they, too, are dependent in some way on their worshippers for their power. But this is power between themselves; they will not necessarily appear to be weak on Earth simply because they have few worshippers. The Ghods that are worshipped most may well become powerful enough to fight or even defeat other Ghods in either case, but the MG's demise will most likely be marked by some subtle yet pervasive change -- the Ghod of Relit Fire weakens and the spells that deal with fire become less effective..... Who can say -- or even speculate upon -- what would happen if the Christian God were to pass away in this world? Perhaps the Gods never die -- they merely wax and wane. PCs do battle with manifestations of some or other aspect of a Ghod's personality (if that's meaningful), and not with the Ghod itself. Destroying the manifestation need not weaken the Ghod directly -- although the resulting loss of faith of its worshippers might make dramatic differences in the long term. -- ... mcvax!ukc!qtlon!flame!ubu!snow!req Striving to promote the interproduction of epimorphistic conformability ....