Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site cci-bdc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!cci-bdc!larry From: larry@cci-bdc.UUCP (Larry DeLuca) Newsgroups: net.flame,net.politics Subject: Re: American(?) Music Awards <> Message-ID: <143@cci-bdc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 15-Feb-85 06:47:28 EST Article-I.D.: cci-bdc.143 Posted: Fri Feb 15 06:47:28 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 18-Feb-85 04:47:09 EST References: <293@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA> <1135@houxm.UUCP> Organization: Computer Consoles, Inc., Cambridge, MA Lines: 110 Xref: watmath net.flame:8398 net.politics:7630 > First off, no one is penalizing you! You are asked to make sacrifices, so that > those who otherwise wouldn't have an opportunity to do what you have always > had the opportunity to do are given that opportunity. > yes. and i don't mind making sacrifices for someone who is at a disad- vantage. but i WON'T make sacrifices for someone because they're black, or gay, or hispanic, or martian. > > Yes, whites in America did something most people consider wrong, years > > ago. But the people who were hurt by it (the slaves) certainly aren't the o > > nes getting the affirmative action, and the people who did the hurting aren't > > being punished. > > True, but it is the offspring of slaves that are still being mistreated because > slavery existed, and civil injustice existed when slavery ended. Again, no one > is being punished, see above. > so? jews have the same problem...i don't advocate mistreating ANYONE... and though i gave the deaf mute who handed me a card with the names of the fifty states on it and a note saying "i am a deaf mute trying to make a reasonable living. please give whatever you can." begging is begging...sure people have a disability...but they can do something about it -- helen keller was in a worse spot and look at all she accomplished... > > Sure, blacks were enslaved and women were treated as > > inferiors, BUT no one is keeping the blacks here now and no one is forcing > > women to stay home. Excuse me if I sound unsympathetic, but I've been asked > > my race and sex once too often and told that it mattered. > > So, does this mean that blacks are supposed to pack up their things and go back > to Africa? Is this the only viable solution to the civil rights problem, be- > cause non-minorities are unwilling to right a wrong by making some sacrifices? > If this is what people think, then I am not surprised that there is still > discrimination and prejudice in the USA, and there probably will be until > blacks just go away. It is not correct to equate the two, acutally, becuase > women were not slaves in the sense that blacks were -- they still had the > freedom to do as they pleased without fear for their lives. A woman who left > her husband could not be legally brought back to him in chains, whipped, and > forced back into servitude. > > this is a silly argument. black americans would be as out of place in rural africa now as their forefathers were in the US. The blacks who did go to Liberia became just as oppressive over the locals as their masters treated them and their forefathers. but people just wouldn't fit. a woman who left her husband endured a different form of torture, no less painful in its own way, because both were centered around BREAKING the human spirit. it's like making a child stay out of the bathroom until they wet themselves, and then spanking them for it (not an extremely common form of child abuse but not unheard of, either). > > (And for a slightly different angle: how many blacks and women resent > > affirmative action as an indication that they can't get jobs on their own > > merits?) > > I'm sure a lot do, however a lot more resent the facts that they can't get jobs > at all because only white males are getting hired. > > > I prefer to get hired because I'm qualified, thank you. And I'd like to know > > that my co-workers are competent, and are really the best people for the job. > > I agree. I wouldn't want to be hired *just because* I'm a minority, however > I wouldn't want *not* to be hired because I was a minority. Within the guide- > lines of AA (not quota filling) it is possible to fill jobs with qualified > minorities but until AA becomes a standard practice lots of minorities will > lose out on opportunities which non-minorities take for granted. > -- > If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse. > > Greg Skinner (gregbo) > {allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo i'm gay and i resent affirmative action. i wouldn't want a job because i was a faggot. i would want it because i'm damn good at what i do. i agree that something like the united negro college fund is a great idea. i think their slogan says it well, "We're not asking for a handout -- just a hand." what i resent in 'my own minority :-)' and all other minorities is the smugness that comes with being so in tune with one's oppression that one sees it even when it's not there...though the consequences of slavery were far-reaching, we can't expect them to pervade everything now. we can't take away so much as one whip-crack by giving every black in the world a fantastic job with $60k a year and a sexy secretary (of the appropriate sex). people giving me extra hoopla about getting hired because i am gay and have 'brothers and sisters' who suffered in the concentration camps and everywhere else aren't doing them any good by giving me an advantage. i know people who go out looking to be oppressed. they usually do get harrassed, but it's mostly because they're so obnoxious. most of the people here who have flamed the most about how all blacks and women and martians should be given extra special treatment are people who have all the comforts of home around them. a position where it's easy to look down on 'whitey' and make him pay (saves you having to dump into the till). larry... whole bit, nor can we -- uucp: ..mit-eddie!cybvax0!cci-bdc!larry arpa: henrik@mit-mc.ARPA This mind intentionally left blank.