Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sdcc13.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc13!ee163acp From: ee163acp@sdcc13.UUCP (DARIN JOHNSON) Newsgroups: net.lang.apl,net.lang.c,net.lang.lisp,net.lang.pascal,net.lang.mod2,net.lang.prolog,net.lang.st80 Subject: Re: Language Idioms Message-ID: <156@sdcc13.UUCP> Date: Sat, 16-Feb-85 16:20:01 EST Article-I.D.: sdcc13.156 Posted: Sat Feb 16 16:20:01 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 19-Feb-85 06:03:15 EST References: <764@utcsrgv.UUCP>, <11450@watmath.UUCP> <708@ecsvax.UUCP> Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center Lines: 23 Xref: watmath net.lang.apl:130 net.lang.c:4405 net.lang.lisp:325 net.lang.pascal:238 net.lang.mod2:172 net.lang.prolog:452 net.lang.st80:199 I think the term idiom is appropriate in this usage. To me and idiom is something native speakers of a language readily understand, but which book-learned speakers have difficulty when translating. They are usually context sensitive. For example, the C favorite for for (;;) is usually readily understood by C programmers, but FORTRAN and other similar programmers have a different concept of what the word 'for' means. They may think that this is an endless loop until the context is looked at (a break inside the loop). Another problem with C 'for' statements is that it is really a form of the 'while' confusing lots of people who thought they knew what a 'for' statement was. LISP provides lots of confusion for people who read the manuals that have only definitions of the words. There is almost no way to understand a LISP program by using a 'dictionary'. A moderate user will also be confused over some strange shorthand. The APL example given earlier is a classic example of what I consider an 'idiom'. Why in the world would anyone want to '.and' a list of words???? So if you take 'idiom' at its defined meaning, it is mostly applicable to usage as a programming word. (at least it is the closest in meaning what is needed) Darin Johnson @ UCSD