Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ames.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcs!lsuc!pesnta!amd!dual!ames!al From: al@ames.UUCP (Al Globus) Newsgroups: net.micro.mac Subject: Mac->UNIX digest Message-ID: <796@ames.UUCP> Date: Wed, 13-Feb-85 17:46:45 EST Article-I.D.: ames.796 Posted: Wed Feb 13 17:46:45 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 14-Feb-85 23:29:09 EST Distribution: net Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA Lines: 226 Here's a digest of the stuff I got in response to a request for data on using the Mac with UNIX. I removed the headers but otherwise did no editing whatsoever. Versaterm seems the big winner - al globus Since apple uses the tilde key for ESC, using mail can be a pain. The lack of a DEL key is also inconvenient. To send these characters: DEL = (command) 1 ~ = (command) (shift) ~ Good hunting and pecking! .... Carl Ballard ITT Advanced Technology Center Shelton, Conn. You might take note that one of Fortune systems third party developers has tied in the 32:16 with Applenet. The potential uses of this are enormous. Already we have filetransfer operational. This opens the possibility of using the 32:16 for electronic mail, or even to emulate a hard disk on the applenet. You should contact Richard Tung for details. If you don't get deluged, let me know and I"ll pass you some notes on how I use my Mac around Unix. chuq >From the ministry of silly talks: Chuq Von Rospach {allegra,cbosgd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Life, the Universe, and lots of other stuff is a trademark of AT&T Bell Labs Every now and then something comes along that destroys long-cherished notions of how the world is made. Such as thing is Versaterm. I'm a text terminal user. I would never have a graphics terminal on my desk, because graphics terminals have always done a lousy job of doing text work. They were slow, or they had annoying long persistence phosphors, or they painted fuzzy characters. There was always a price to pay for being able to paint pictures on the screen. This is so no longer. I posted an article last week complaining about the lack of some file transfer features in Versaterm. Since then, I have received an updated version. I can now say that this is not only the finest terminal emulator on the Macintosh today (faint praise, that) but easily the best terminal software I have ever used on any computer. Versaterm, in fact, makes the Macintosh one of the finest terminals I have ever used. Lonnie Abelbeck has made using the Macintosh as a terminal a pleasant experience. The Mac works like a Mac should work. There's a good sized memory buffer of text saved off the top of the screen, the list of phone numbers resides under a menu, the communication settings are automatically set when a number is called, there's a menu full of macros. And the manual is almost completely unnecessary. This program supports upload and download using plain ASCII, binary Xmodem, text Xmodem (which filters out those hateful linefeeds) and Macterminal Xmodem (which transfers both forks of the Macintosh file). I have been able to do full screen editing using Vi at 9600 baud with no trouble. Versaterm gives you the option + mouse cursor control that Macterminal introduced. The versaterm version of this seems to work much faster, and you can use it with either Vi or EMACS. When in Vi (and other full screen editors), you must turn off XON/XOFF. When listing anything at 9600 baud you must turn it on (Versaterm can handle ~7200 baud without flow control). The XON/XOFF switch is directly under a menu, which makes it quick and easy to change. Versaterm supports the add-on numeric keypad. It also allows you to use the regular keypad for cursor control and function key purposes. (This is the only thing I've seen that I needed manual to find out.) It supports all the VT100 features that I use, which is enough to do full screen editing, but I can't say how well it supports those features I don't use (it doesn't claim to be a perfect VT100 emulator). I cannot report on how well Versaterm works as a graphics terminal, since I don't use graphics. I have used it to do simple pictures - circles, squares, toriods. It seems to do the job. But I'll leave the review of the Tektronix and the DG2000 emulators to those who better understand them. This excellent program is well worth its price, even if you only use it in its VT100 mode. The addition of Tekronix and DG2000 emulation easily make it a bargain. Future enhancements promise to make it even better. For those (like me) who have to deal with brain-damaged and/or toy computers, Lonnie has indicated that future releases will include both Macterminal-type delay-after-line, and MacTEP-type wait-for-prompt ASCII upload. Programmable answerback and true 9600 baud operation are goals I would urge on him. You can buy Versaterm by sending $99 to: Peripherals Computers & Supplies, Inc 2232 Perkiomen Avenue Mt. Penn, PA 19606 (215) 779-0522 I recommend it. THE USUAL DISCLAIMER: I have no personal or financial ties with Lonnie Abelbeck or the organization selling this product. My only interest is in good, quality software for the Macintosh. This program sets high standards for the Macintosh, and is well worth the time we have waited. I hope other Mac developers take heed and do as well. -- Hmm... I've found a couple of good uses for the Mac in my environment. The most useful is simply a smart terminal with me. I took it to Dallas, and it allowed me to keep in communication with the home office quite nicely. I also have it at home, so I can work when I get the motivation without having to do things like go to work, put on clothes, etc... Related to that is the wordprocessing. I have both MacWrite and the MDS (Macintosh Development System-- not yet released, but available with the Mac C compiler). MDS comes with a vi like editor and Macwrite is a pretty powerful word processor. I can upload text to the Mac, work on it (in either form as convenient) and then download it again. When I was in dallas, I sent out daily updates to various people on what was going on that allowed us to pass new information around much quicker than I could hav otherwise. I have a Macwrite to nroff/troff conversion program that allows me to take formatted documents (with some loss of information) and format them into intelligible unix documents. I'm starting to use the Mac for project planning-- I am hoping to have MacProject Real Soon Now (as soon as the PO goes through) and I'll be keeping track of things with it. I'm still using the Unix system for calendars, phone books, etc.... mainly because I keep the Mac at home most of the time and it isn't as accessible as it could be. Now, when I get a Mac at work, too, and only have to lug disks that changes... *grin* If you want more details, drop me a note. chuq They make real nice terminals (particularly if you use VersaTerm and macput/get). Sumacc/C is a nice cross development system. From roger Tue Feb 5 10:51:06 1985 To: al Subject: Mac -> UNIX Cc: barry Al, Read your note on the net and, since I have been using the mac and MacTerminal with both Unix systems thought I would men- tion a couple things. First, in general the vt100 terminal works well enough to be usable, though I've heard that to run on VMS one needs the numeric key pad. Second, it is slow! The screen up- date is 1200 baud or less, even though I run on 9600 baud connec- tion through the micom. Third, there seems to be no way to stop the disk from periodically updating itself. It will do this even when told not to save lines off the top. A very annoying feature as these updates interrupt communications for as long as 10-20 seconds and happen fairly often. Fourth, there is no EASY way to get a file from Unix to the mac. The process is straightforward, but requires that you quit MacTerminal to get a long file over. Fifth, there is no indication of how full the capture buffer is. It is very annoying to suddenly find that the buffer is full and no more will be saved. Sixth, the autowraparound doesn't work sa- tisfactorily on Unix command lines. Lines will wrap, but if you try to backspace to correct a mistake, the cursor will not wrap back to the previous line, even though continued backspacing will delete characters from that line. You quickly lose track of what you are deleting. Seventh, a personal quirk I suppose. I often lose the underling cursor while editing a text file. I don't like the blinking rectangle. Why doesn't the mac allow one a steady cursor. I would prefer a non-blinking rectangle for most editing. Eighth, a mac problem, not a Mac- Terminal problem. The tilde key is a three-key key (shift-command-tilde). Comes from the lack of an ESC key. Ninth, not really a problem or a complaint, more of an observation. Most of the features of the mac will remain use- less until some graphic drivers are developed for Unix. I under- stand that there are terminal emulation packages for the mac that emulate a Tektronix 4014 or some such graphic terminal that Unix recognizes. A termcap definition for the mac that included some references to the quickdraw routines would be nice. Even a good graphic emulation package would be satisfactory. While on this point, I would like more compatability between the mac's software (e.g. MacWrite) and the Unix system and its peripherals (e.g. laser printer). Tenth and final point, I am not even tempted to go back to a standard terminal! I am not bothered by the small screen or small print (though a 60 line terminal would be nice) and quite like the black on white, never having been a great fan of either green or orange. I also like a configuration that gives me local computing power. I guess that, in general, I expect more from the mac then I've seen so far with MacTerminal, and expect that there will be more and better communications packages in the not-to-distant future. But then such has always been the hope of mac users since the beginning - When will we see [better] software? Roger Remington Helpful hint: when preparing longish or often-repeated command lines, you can write them on the Notepad (using the Mac's nifty screen editor), then paste them to the output stream. Example: if you want to macput many (but not all) of the files in a Unix directory, just do an 'ls', copy the output of ls to the Notepad, edit out the files you don't want, stick '; macput' in front of each remaining file, then just paste the Notepad to the output stream and go for a cup of coffee. Judicious use of desk accessories with a terminal emulator makes the Mac a REALLY smart terminal. David D. Levine (...decvax!tektronix!orca!davidl) [UUCP] (orca!davidl.tektronix@csnet-relay.csnet) [ARPA]