Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site alice.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ulysses!allegra!alice!jj From: jj@alice.UUCP Newsgroups: net.news,net.followup Subject: Re: net overload-- comments and suggestions Message-ID: <3429@alice.UUCP> Date: Thu, 28-Feb-85 17:19:01 EST Article-I.D.: alice.3429 Posted: Thu Feb 28 17:19:01 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 1-Mar-85 20:38:14 EST References: <2404@nsc.UUCP> Organization: New Jersey State Farm for the Terminally Bewildered Lines: 94 Xref: watmath net.news:3202 net.followup:4569 I have been slowling abandoning the net, but I really don't think that the reasons are the ones that Chuq advances. It's my feeling that the SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the net is slowly sinking to zero, and the utility is following accordlingly. I've seen several reason for this, which follow (more or less) in order of decreasing importance: 1) Failure on the part of net persons to realize that netnews is a VOLUNTEER organization (if indeed it my be called an organization), and insist/are intent on perverting it to their own use. Various examples are: Religious harrassment (by or to religious people, it doesn't matter) Sexual innuendo (I'll include pro/anti gay flamers here, along with the "feet" crock in net.singles. Refusal to COOPERATE with existing, stated, and obvious (net.women.only comes to mind) rules. 2) Beginner ignorance. I think that it is a necessity on any network with the power of netnews that people must be aware of what/where netnews goes before they use it. I don't think that the "newsgroup clutter" has anything to do with this, I think the lack of MORE, and better organized newsgroups is the real problem. Eliminating newsgroups will, in the short run, provide even MORE traffic for interested people to deal with. In the long run, it will eliminate new discussions and subjects because of precidence. There was some talk, a long time ago, about expiring newsgroups. 3) The insistance of some individuals (I'm not talking Mark, Chuq, Gene, here, please) in regarding the net as their own personal outhouse. There is currently NO way to deal with irresponsible net contributors, and given that many net participants have shown that they are unable to ignore such individuals, chaos is rampant. What to do? 1) There exists no clear, defined, accepted, proposed, or even stated purpose for netnews. There is no overall document that explains how it works, why it works, and what it's existance depends on. Make one. (No, I won't volunteer, I'm too controversial, and I don't have the time to do it RIGHT, either.) 2) There MUST be a database of ALL newsgroups. The first message in every new group should state what that group isintended for. The complete collection of all such articles should be available on line, and outside of postnews, for the interested to peruse. The organization, which is currently random, must be changed. This does indeed involve cooperation on the part of SA's, but it is essential. If this much cooperation cannot be found, there is no purpose in trying much of anything. 3) PLEASE USE RESTRAINT. Don't encourage people who bait you, don't rise to people who WANT to excite you and raise your blood pressure, etc. Pass this message on. In the time I've been on the net, I've seen it grow from 100 people on 20 machines, each talking to the whole audience, and engaging in dialog, to Several thousand people on 100+- machines, using newsgroups and such to engage in dialog, to A few more thousand people, on a few more machines, calling each other names, and engaging in libel/slander of all sorts, to emotional effect. I include here the birth of the net sophist, rhetorical cheater, and the like, to About 10000 people, a good number of them shouting at the top of their lungs, and nobody listening. What does it show? It shows that the net is nothing but a collection of the people ON the net. The current crop (with significant exceptions) is disputatous, rude, and intolerant of any sort of moderate behavior (I almost said moderation. I know better!). I must say that I have at times contributed to the chaos, as has everyone. It's easy to loose your temper, especially when someone tells you that your lifelong theoretical and technical specialization doesn't entitle you to comment on something you've studied for 10 years, or someone tells you that you must be subhuman because you are labelled by them "conservative", or the like, but it's coming time to learn moderate behavior or loose the questionable priveledge of using netnews. I've been talking far too long. Shut up, JJ! -- TEDDY BEARS SURVIVE EVEN IN TODAY'S BULL MARKET. HUG YOURS, IT NEEDS YOU! "...other side, the other man's grass is always greener, some are ..." (allegra,harpo,ulysses)!alice!jj