Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ubvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hpda!fortune!amdcad!cae780!ubvax!tonyw From: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Taking up Richard's gauntlet ... Message-ID: <192@ubvax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 13-Feb-85 16:37:02 EST Article-I.D.: ubvax.192 Posted: Wed Feb 13 16:37:02 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 18-Feb-85 05:34:28 EST References: <326@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <4715@ucbvax.ARPA>, <235@tilt.FUN> Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, Ca. Lines: 45 Ray Chen's explication of the lack of a relationship between classical Marxism and egalitarianism is right on the mark, and very well expressed. I once went to a talk on organizational effectiveness where the first question asked was "Why does the speaker think it is that the word 'effectiveness' doesn't exist in any language other than English?" I doubt that European Marxists give egalitarianism even lip service. It's a concept that can't be given a concrete or an ideological form in the usual European environment. And Europe, not the U.S., is the fount of clear and pragmatic Marxist writing. I did find once, though, a place where something like egalitarianism was stressed in modern Marxism, other than being criticized as just another figment of false consciousness. Ernesto Laclau has a concept of "the people" as an organizing tool in political systems tied to democratic ideals which he uses in reference to political protest in Latin America. If you want to change the economic system, you have to overthrow the state and fight on its rhetorical and political ground, using democratic slogans and forming popular coalitions based on same. Since the founding documents of Latin American political systems all have references to "the people", as in the U.S. Constitution's "We the people", there is lots of accumulated egalitarian sentiment in these systems, waiting to be stirred up. Most statements of liberation theology, and the manifestos of most of the Central American revolutionary organizations, are plastered with references to "poder popular," meaning power to "the people". I'd suggest that the further one gets away from American-derived "We the people" political ideologies, the less relevance egalitarianism as a motivating force has, and the more Illyrian talk about egalitarianism appears. Classical Marxism battles not with inequality, but with property; not with income, but with capital; not with profits, but with the disbursement of profits; not with markets, but with the control of markets. The forms that Marxism takes outside of its original environment (Europe and Russia) are adapted to their new surroundings. These new forms are often not classical. (The Ernesto Laclau book is "Politics and Ideology in Marxist Theory", New Left Books, 1978) Tony Wuersch