Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dciem.UUCP Path: utzoo!dciem!mmt From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Survival of Libertaria in competition Message-ID: <1426@dciem.UUCP> Date: Tue, 26-Feb-85 17:42:23 EST Article-I.D.: dciem.1426 Posted: Tue Feb 26 17:42:23 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 27-Feb-85 02:12:54 EST References: <1597@bmcg.UUCP> <233@tilt.FUN> <676@unmvax.UUCP> <240@tilt.FUN> Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Distribution: net Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada Lines: 39 Summary: Summary of preceding dispute (in which I had no part): Somebody claimed that the (presumed) superiority of Libertaria would cause it to survive in free competition of societies. Cliff argues that this is not so, in particular because of "ignorant and apathetic citizens" who allow "myopic politicians" to pull "clever stunts" to fix problems. Elsewhere, Cliff has likened Libertaria to a society in which the best will thrive, it being a version of evolution in action. In yet another argument, the society of Nations has been argued to follow libertarian principles in that there is NO supranational regulatory enforcement. In this trans-national Libertaria, nations play the parts of individuals. If we allow these claims, we seem to land up with a contradiction: In the normal course of social change, Libertaria should have occurred by chance, if not by design, and probably more than once. According to the libertarian argument, it should then have thrived and grown quickly strong, being better than its neighbours on both economic and ethical grounds. We should now see several Libertarias, if not a world full of them. But we see none, and no evidence that any ever existed. The contradiction can be resolved by eliminating any one of several assumptions: (1) No Libertaria has yet existed, and therefore none has had the chance to show its quality; (2) The best does not necessarily survive, which implies that the arguments usually proposed in favour of Libertaria are faulty; (3) Libertaria would not work the way its supporters claim. (2) implies (3), and my personal belief is that all 3 statements are true. If an approach to libertarian principles would make a society stronger than a retreat from them, we would expect an inevitable drift toward Libertaria, rather than just an expansion of it when it occurred by chance. This also renders suspect the grandiose claims of the libertarians. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt