Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site cvl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!umcp-cs!cvl!arig
From: arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Racist Ultra-Orthodox
Message-ID: <46@cvl.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 18-Feb-85 04:34:05 EST
Article-I.D.: cvl.46
Posted: Mon Feb 18 04:34:05 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 21-Feb-85 03:44:02 EST
References: <248@unm-la.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Computer Vision Lab, U. of Maryland, College Park
Lines: 65

> 
> 
> By using the term "racist ultra-orthodox" I meant something
> very specific.  Most orthodox Jews in Israel (for sure,
> all "knitted kipa" elements) view the Ethiopian Jews as Jewish.
> The Chief Sephardic rabbi and his staff have determined after
> years of study that the Ethiopian Jews were originally from the
> tribe of Dan.  The problem the Ethiopian Jews face is with the 
> Agudat Yisrael ultra-orthodox party and other anti-Zionist entities.

  Hate to spoil your vitriolic attack on Agudat Yisrael and other
"anti-Zionist entities" -- but it was the Chief Rabbis of Israel
who decided that Ethiopian Jews should go through a token ritual
of conversion since their Jewishness is not beyond question. They
might have come from the tribe of Dan once upon a time, and that 
is really not the issue; the issue is what happened to Ethiopian Jews
in the interim .There is little in the way of Jewish scholarship
among Ethiopian Jews (very few can read Hebrew). In the absence of
Jewish scholars or those who knew halacha, can we assume that their
marriages, divorces, etc, had religious validity to them? This is
a serious problem for all Jews in Israel who want to make sure that
there are uniform standards for ascertaining who is a Jew and who is
not; to make a dichotomy between Zionist and anti-Zionist is really
rather absurd. 

> These ultra-orthodox parties have exhibited racism towards their
> fellow Jews at every opportunity afforded to them.  In their
> quest for "yiddishkeit" they divide the world into "yids" and
> "non-yids."  Yids look like disheveled 17th century Polish
> zorros who don't get enough sun.  Non-yids are anything else.

  Sounds like this stuff should be expeditiously shipped over to
net.anti-semitic where it will probably be better received. Why do
we have to start stereotyping groups of individuals in such a ludicrous
way? Is it because an intelligent, persuasive argument is lacking?


> As Abeles wrote, what right do these people have to determine who
> is Jewish and who is not?  It is G-d who determines it. 


   Yes, but presumably G-d has certain standards and the underlying question
here is what are those requirements ? Are they based on some halachic
principles or do we make them up as we go along?
 

> Can you see the cruel irony of the matter?  These European-looking
> people in black smocks and fur hats with faces like Slavic
> warriors telling Jews from Ethiopia to get into a mikvah!


> bill peter

   Is this any more ironic than European-looking people in leather sandals,
kibbutz hats, and Bermuda shorts putting religious olim from sephardic
countries into irreligious kibbutzim, where they were forced to give up their
faith ? I'm sure most Ethiopian olim would rather be sent to the mikveh than
be stripped of their religion.

                                        Ari Gross
                                        arig@cvl.arpa