Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: To my dear friend Eliyahu Teitz Message-ID: <1163@aecom.UUCP> Date: Tue, 19-Feb-85 12:23:25 EST Article-I.D.: aecom.1163 Posted: Tue Feb 19 12:23:25 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 21-Feb-85 05:08:12 EST References: <254@unm-la.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 99 > > I did not infer that the haggim are dependent on Israel time, but rather > are celebrated to coincide with the celebration of the holiday in Israel. > Don't you celebrate two seders on Pesach and an extra day of Sukkot? If > Israel is celebrating Tu b'Shevat, can you decide to postpone the celebration > for six more months? The reason I cannot postpone it is not because it is then being celebrated in Israel. Rather, it is because that is the day of celebration. After all, the Jews were commanded to observe Pesach before they even resided in Israel. The Jews were slaves in Egypt and were commanded to observe Pesach, so how can that holiday be dependent on Israel as a reference? > > Similarly, I think a case can be made for the fact that from a reference frame > centered in Israel, a yeshiva bocher travelling 0.999993 the speed of light > will have only aged one day during an entire Israeli year. Since six hours > aboard the space ship corresponds to a full season (spring, etc.) in Israel, > and since G-d commanded us to celebrate the haggim each in its own season, > the yeshiva bocher (who has no seasons aboard a space ship) should go by > those in Israel. Again, who decided that the reference point is Israel? Why? > > Of course, the most rational reply was given by another poster who quoted > Rav Goren as deciding that shabbat and haggim have no such restrictions > on a space traveller. Does anyone know where this opinion was originally printed? I would like to see some reasons for this decision, instead of its being quoted as an absolute truth. > > To such as yourself who feels that "the safest solution is to avoid those > areas" I can give you no answer, since you feel that Jews do not belong in > space, but do belong in Elizabeth, N.J. No they don't belong in Elizabeth, but if a person really cared about halacha, he wouldn't put himself into a situation where problems might arise. We see, in the first mishna in Sha"s ( the talmud ), that the rabbis warned us to daven earlier than required "k'dei l'harchik et haadam min ha'averah, to distance man from potential sin. Why does this only apply the mishna. It is applicable in our everyday lives and it certainly applies here ( especially since we are dealing, not only with holidays but with daily prayer too ). So people belong on earth until a consensus is reached on space travel, and one person's opinion does not form a consensus. > > As for my "condescending" tone and "sideswipes at the religious", I think > you are reading an intent in my postings that are nonexistent. I do not > make "sideswipes" at yeshiva students (I was one myself). I do not look down > on the religious. I even don't mind replying to your intolerant postings. Okay, it was just the tone in which it was written seemed to sound condescending. I just wanted to find out for sure. > > Now that you mention it, however, I do have a problem dealing with > self-righteous people who are always judging other people's lack of > religious observance. These people are often the same people who have a > jar of "negel wasser" next to their beds, and then tell other Jews to either > hand them a family history or get into a mikvah. I agree wholeheartedly, and it was in this vein that I posted my article. What I don't like is those who think that others because they advocate caution are being self-righteous. > > Maybe when Mashiach comes (soon in our days), he can teach us whether it > is more important to love one another or to berate each other for not > being as religious as his neighbor. > --- Amen. Eliyahu Teitz. >