Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxww.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!levy From: levy@pyuxww.UUCP (S Levy) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Jewish state vs. state for Jews, ( reposted in PY) Message-ID: <146@pyuxww.UUCP> Date: Thu, 28-Feb-85 17:14:33 EST Article-I.D.: pyuxww.146 Posted: Thu Feb 28 17:14:33 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 1-Mar-85 09:29:32 EST Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J. Lines: 75 I believe that Israel is a state for Jews with the "Orthodox" faction attempting to make it a "Jewish state". The government of Israel is composed of PEOPLE elected by the PEOPLE and not a divinely appointed group of beaurocrats. In the U.S. I am very against laws mixing religion and politics and think it would be an act of hipocracy and self righteousness to encourage this in Israel and adamantly oppose it throughout the rest of the world. I believe in Israel as a state for Jews in which total religious freedom is given to all, and particular care is taken so that Jews can practice their religion freely This does not mean that one group of people should impose there views on others. Although I am a practicing Orthodox Jew, it bothered me that in most communities Shabbos is forced on people, I would hope that the norm in Israel would be for businesses which close one day a week to choose Saturday as opposed to Sunday because either they themselves are Shomer Shabbat or because as keen businessmen they would realize that on Sunday more people can transact business with them than on Saturday, or possibly just as the accepted norm. ( As Sunday is in the U.S. even where the Sunday "Blue Laws" have been revoked.) It is accepted by most Jews that Israel is the one place in the world that might possibly be considered a haven for the oppressed Jew and (Chas V'Sholem) if even the U.S. were the oppressor or not openning its doors to Jews, one could flee to Israel. This is all confirmed by the almost immediate passing of the "Law of Return" after Israel's initial declared statehood.... Or is it???? Now we get to the age old question of Who is a Jew??? Well enough people are arguing this point on the net and I won't waste my fingers on it. However I do question whether Israel should only allow those considered Jews by Jews ( particularly if we are only talking about the Orthodox community as being able to judge ) use it as their haven. The who is a Jew question might be perfectly valid in private matters, i.e. marriage, conversion, children, or even minyans and aliyot, but should Israel turn away another human being who is being persecuted for being a Jew ( whether or not they meet our criteria ) from its tiny borders??? Hitler wasn't so particular he murdered the Orthodox, the Conservative, the Reform, and the Chasidim side by side; he didn't care if they were converted by a Reform Rabbi. His criteria was simply that any one of your 4 grandparents was Jewish ... that made you a Jew. I know the sad story of a woman whose father was Jewish and her mother was not. Her mother had passed away when she was about 2 and she grew up raised by her Jewish grandparents; that meant keeping kashruth and for the most part keeping Shabbos. It also meant that she suffered through the concentration camps. Having been fortunate ( if you could call it that ) to survive Auschwitz she longed to go to Israel, her father having instilled in her the Zionistic urge. She attempted to shortly after the State of Israel was formed and found that despite the numbers tattooed on her arm she could not enter under the "Law of Return". ( I realize had the grandparents been Orthodox they would made sure that the girl was converted as soon as possible ) She had always considered herself a Jew. She was very disillusioned, and upon hearing the story so was I. Please note I realize that without a conversion no faction of Judaism would consider her Jewish and I am not saying that she is; what I question here is the "Law of Return" and its purpose in saving the persecuted "Jew". The purpose of this article is not to cause friction but simply to extoll my viewpoint hoping that some of you will think about it. I realize that many of these views might be controversial to the outspoken on this newsgroup. To whom it may concern, I know you disagree so don't bother flaming!!! Just some of my own opinions------ ------Sharon Levy pyuxn!levy