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From: mag@whuxlm.UUCP (Gray Michael A)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: To Mikki Barry
Message-ID: <714@whuxlm.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 19-Mar-85 00:05:59 EST
Article-I.D.: whuxlm.714
Posted: Tue Mar 19 00:05:59 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 19-Mar-85 08:02:13 EST
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Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Whippany
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Observations about and replies to Ken Arndt's reply to Mikki Barry:
> 
> "Isn't that better than raising everyone's blood pressure?"
> 
> Yes it is, . . . if what's inside the woman is not a baby!
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Please tell us Mikki, when is the magic moment when 'It' becomes a baby?
> You're not impressed with 12 weeks (others are) - at what tick of the clock,
> at what added cell or at what location (inside, half inside, all the way out)
> does an 'it' become a person?
> 
All the way out.

> Ahhh,  we can't tell.  So (like the Supreme Court - soon to overrule itself
> again) the fiat is given . . . HERE!  
> 

As I said, all the way out.

>I agree wholeheartedly with you about the need to HELP women, and I am involved
> in doing this through a local Birthright, but doesn't it ever strike you as a
>little bit odd that we DO have cases every day in which in one room doctors are
>trying to kill the same thing that other doctors are trying to save in the next
> room??????  
> 
Ironic, yes; odd, no.  By the way, it's not the same thing -- it's the same
TYPE of thing.  If one set of doctors were trying to save the SAME fetus that
others were trying to kill, now, THAT would be ODD.

> WHY are the doctors working on the premie???
> 
Because the preemie is wanted.

> WHY are the doctors leaving the other (in the case of 'live birth') to die???
> 
Are we talking about abortions or live births? Please make up your mind.

>WHAT IS DIFFERENT ABOUT THE TWO LITTLE BODDIES THAT WARRANTS DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR?(of course that's bodies)  but, if you're still reading, don't let that divert
> you from my question please.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Is the difference one is wanted and the other an embarrassment?
> 
More precisely, one is wanted and one is not.

> One is at the 'right time in my life' and the other not???
> 
Now you're getting the picture!

> Please tell me the difference, because I really want to believe that we have
> NOT been killing babies to make our lives more convenient!!!!!!
> 
That's what we're doing.  No one in their right mind would kill a fetus unless
it enhanced their life.  If you choose to call this "more convenient", that's
a nice ad hominem turn of phrase, but it's essentially correct.  What's wrong
with wanting one's life to go better?  A woman who has an abortion is choosing
herself above someone else.  I have no problem with that.  She's not killing
a stranger, she's killing someone who is threatening her happiness who she
does not choose to support.  That is her right.  If you find her to be a 
heartless, immoral murderer, that is YOUR right.  Go ahead and believe it.
I don't.

> Talk about the pain and struggle of the mother, however real, does NOT take
> away the fact that there is 'something' there that if not KILLED will be a
> baby shortly.  It is alive, and cover it with as much sugar as you wish,
> abortion stops that life!

RIGHT!!  That's what abortion is FOR!!!  To stop that life.

> And no one can tell me WHEN that 'something' becomes > a baby!  Can you?
> 
I thought we already covered this point, but I'll try again:  ALL THE
WAY OUT.

> Regards,
> 
> Ken Arndt

Regards, Mike Gray, BTL, WH