Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site dscvax2.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!cepu!ucsbcsl!dscvax2!mn From: mn@dscvax2.UUCP (Matt Noah) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Mikki Barry is a Pro-Lifer Message-ID: <235@dscvax2.UUCP> Date: Mon, 18-Mar-85 17:45:23 EST Article-I.D.: dscvax2.235 Posted: Mon Mar 18 17:45:23 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 23-Mar-85 04:01:02 EST Organization: Digital Sound Corp., Santa Barbara Lines: 101 >> ............... Unlike the pro-abortionist, however, the pro-life >>community has extended itself to care for the needs of the mother; providing >>counseling, housing, food and love. > >First, the term 'pro-abortionist' is incorrect. Pro-choice people particularly >use the term pro-choice because that's what they mean. Abortion is not >particularly a PREFERRED option, but it is viewed as an EXISTING OPTION. >The term 'pro-abortion' or like is generally used by pro-lifers who wish >to paint propagandist pictures of anyone who disagrees with them (also >used are 'pro-death', anti-life, etc. as if anyone who disagrees with >me is diametrically opposed). To be pro-choice in today's world is to be pro-abortion. Analogy? If the issue were black slavery, would you consider the pro-choice (let the slave-owner decide) viewpoint as anything but pro-slavery. To be silent about such a critical issue is to accept it - even if one does not practice it. One cannot run on the grass while "sitting on the fence". >Second, I would not assume that the pro-choice community has not extended >itself to care as you indicate, and further would ask: > > 1. What has the pro-life community done to counsel women BEFORE > pregnancy in attempts to minimize situations where abortion > could be considered as an option? > > 2. What is the attitude of pro-lifers about pre-teen and teenage > birth control and sex education in a similar attempt to minimize > such situations where abortion is considered? > Give me an example of the way the pro-choice community has done anything - under the banner of pro-choice - to help unwed mothers. In my own city of Santa Barbara, the SB Pregnancy Counseling Center helps women in distress. On February 14, 1985 "Tender Life" in Ventura, CA incorporated to establish free pregnancy testing, a hotline, counseling, per-natal and childcare classes, job training ( for poor unwed mothers, not all are) and single parent counseling. In addition, real estate is being set aside to establish a home to house young women turned out of their homes because of their pregnancies. Why don't you send a check to Tender Life, PO BOX 7610, Oxnard, CA 93-31 or call Leah Coulter at (805)-983-4231? If you really mean well, this is an excellent chance to help someone. >> ..... You are naive to think that pro-lifers will >>work together with pro-choicers to provide every alternative to abortion. >>Each has their selfish interest to protect ($ for pro-choicers, LIFE for >>pro-lifers) and will not work with the other. > >I certainly wouldn't expect any collaborations with idiots like this involved. >This one hardly warrants any response. Fortunately, I don't expect most >pro-lifers feel this way. If they do, then any lack of inclination to >work together is in the pro-life camp, not the pro-choice. ( I'm pro-choice, >when do I get my money? :-) ) I'm glad you think I'm an idiot because name-calling is a sign that you're running out of rational responses. Since one of the arguments used by the pro-choicers is that many births would lead to a greater welfare roll, then you stand on the side of your pocketbook. Not every prchoicer is making big money from abortions - only people who work the clinics, etc. Some of you foolishly defend abortionists while your rights are escaping you, e.g. currently a husband whose wife has an abortion has no say in the decision. I, for one, want my rights returned. I also want to see the next generation of adults brought up in a world where life is sacred; the aged, the pre-born, the mentally retarded, the handicapped, etc. Man should not have the power over life that he now commands. Making abortion illegal is a step back to sanity. Since abortion was made legal, child abuse in this country has more than doubled - is this respect for life? >I think there is room for collaboration. However, as long as pro-lifers >feel the only way to minimize abortions is to try to make them illegal, >then there's not much starting ground. If on the other hand if we all agree >that abortions are clearly not DESIREABLE, then maybe we can work together >to counsel women in such a way as to minimize the occurence of such >problem preganacys that would lead to abortions. Certainly most pro-lifers >are not so naive as to think that laws will ELIMINATE abortions? Does it >not stand to reason that the effect laws will have on reducing abortions >may also be achieved in OTHER ways that do not create unsafe black-market >industries? Cocaine is illegal and people die terrible deaths in the course of selling and distributing it. Would you then propose to make cocaine legal? Do you think it would be a wise decision? Give me the scenario (legal, moral, etc.) in which drugs such as cocaine would be acceptable to you? >This is not to say there are no problems however. Controversies about >sex education and birth control provided to teenagers(without knowledge >of parents etc.) are inclined to pop up. How do pro-lifers feel about >these? Is this part of the underlying reasons the pro-lifers prefer >illegal abortions to other methods of reducing abortions? Maybe we should >discuss this for a while? > >Keith Doyle ># {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd >"You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think!" Tell me what is wrong with adoption. Ask a poor child if he would rather be dead than poor. Why is the incidence of child abuse higher in families where the child was born in a WANTED pregnancy? Matt Noah