Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site calmasd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcc3!sdcc6!calmasd!jpm From: jpm@calmasd.UUCP (John McNally) Newsgroups: net.eunice Subject: RESULTS OF EUNICE INQUIRY Message-ID: <309@calmasd.UUCP> Date: Mon, 11-Mar-85 19:03:19 EST Article-I.D.: calmasd.309 Posted: Mon Mar 11 19:03:19 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 13-Mar-85 04:06:28 EST Organization: Calma Company, San Diego, CA Lines: 126 Thanks to all the netters who so kindly responded to my inquiry about Eunice. These include: Darrel J. Van Buer {sdcsvax}!sdcrdcf!darrelj (SDC) Chuck Hedrick {sdcsvax}!trwrb!twg!topaz!hedrick Dan ? {sdcsvax}!allegra!fisher!djl Jim ? {sdcsvax}!decvax!hcr!jim Gunnar Lindberg {sdcsvax!decvax}!mcvax!enea!chalmers!lindberg (Chalmers University of Technology) Brian Gordon {sdcsvax!decvax!decwrl}!amd!cae780!gordon (AMDCAD) Chip Rosenthal {...!intelca}!t4test!chip (INTEL) If I have forgotten anyone, sorry and thanks to you as well! I have taken the responses I got and summarized them for the net. Most responses were directly related to Eunice, but I got information (as I requested) on other products that occupy a similar niche in the VAX/VMS/UNIX-like world. I will treat each in a separate section, starting with Eunice. 1. Eunice This product emulates 4.1BSD UNIX system calls. It is compatible with programs written for UNIX at the source level. This means you re-link your UNIX programs with Eunice libraries and the program will work. I assume this means you also must re-compile the program, but the responses I got did not indicate this for sure. Basically, Eunice allows you to run just about any Unix program under VMS. If you must re-compile the program (see above), then I assume you must have some form of language support for your programming language that operates on VMS (or maybe has been ported from UNIX to Eunice?). The consensus was that Eunice runs slowly (but that is to be expected - OS within OS philosophy), that some of the Unix utilities running on top of Eunice have some rough edges, and if you can swing native Unix it would be a better idea. However, if you need VMS because of product support requirements, Eunice can give you a quick method of integrating a nice programming environment into your development work. You must have a UNIX license. It runs on VMS 3.4 and up, but watch out for catch up time on new VMS releases. Eunice is provided by the Wollongong Group, 1135A San Antonio Rd. Palo Alto, CA 94303 415-962-9224. They get no pre-releases of VMS or UNIX, so you might want to consider lead time problems with OS upgrades. Supposedly, System V support will soon appear. The cost for Eunice appears to be in the $16k range. I made no contact with TWG, nor any other vendor, during this survey. Other products mentioned to me include: 2. IS/WB This product is marketed by Interactive Systems Corp. and provides 200 UNIX tools as extensions to VMS. The company claims that this does not alter VMS performance. Of course, this approach only provides a UNIX-like tool enviroment on top of VMS, and so it does not provide for moving user programs from UNIX to VMS (unless I misunderstood the product). The address is: Interactive Systems Corp. 1212 Seventh Street Santa Monica, CA 213-450-8363. 3. VAX UNITY This seems to be very similar in philosophy to the Eunice approach - emulated at the system call level through a virtual kernel, relink using provided libraries, no code changes. All I have for this is a phone number: 416-922-1937 (New York) 4. Pheonix Hardly any info available to me, except that it provides compatability at the binary level - no source change or re-compilation required. 5. Ultrix This was mentioned as an alternative because of the performance problems of "OS within an OS" approach. If you can share a machine between two OS (at different times, of course) or you have a separate development machine, using a UNIX-lookalike that is native could be the way to go. Of course, if you can afford this, you could probably just run 4.2. However, if you are heavily dependent upon VMS, you might prefer Ultrix because it is a DEC-supported product. I hear the DEC CEs don't like doing diagnostics on VAX with foreign OS. Doing this survey was really interesting for me (I was actually obtaining some info for a friend). I was forced to think about what Unix really is when we start seeing various versions, look-alikes, OS on top of OS, etc. It seems that what Unix is to you depends a lot on what you use Unix for. To some people it is a true operating system - a solution to shared resource management. To others it is a set of functions for accomplishing program functions like file i/o, terminal communication, etc. To still others it is a programming environment consisting of very useful utilities and programs like make, RCS and a command shell that provides pipes and i/o redirection. I think that this third point is where Unix is now really making inroads in the industry and explains the success of Eunice and other products. A few years ago people were saying that Unix would be the standard OS. A recent article in Mini/Micro (2/85) refutes this and echoes my sentiments about the programming environment. This explains the popularity of re-implementing Unix (Ultrix, Zenix, ad nauseaum) and even more importantly, the popularity of Unix system calls as an application on top of a proprietary OS - Eunice provides this for VMS and several vendors (Ridge, Elexsis and Data General, at least) are taking this approach now. Disclaimers: There are probably a lot of trademarks in this article that belong to some corporations, like Unix, Ultrix, Zenix, Vax, etc. I have no association with any of the companies mentioned in this article other than having read about or, in some cases, used their product(s). The information I have provided here is, to the best of my knowledge, correct. If I have misinformed anyone, I would be glad to correct my statements if someone just tells me where I am wrong. These statements do not neccessarily represent the views of my employer. -- John McNally Calma 11080 Roselle St. San Diego CA 92121 ...{ucbvax,decvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!jpm (619)-458-3230