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From: bobd@zaphod.UUCP (Bob Dalgleish)
Newsgroups: net.eunice
Subject: Re: RESULTS OF EUNICE INQUIRY
Message-ID: <207@zaphod.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 13-Mar-85 18:33:26 EST
Article-I.D.: zaphod.207
Posted: Wed Mar 13 18:33:26 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 16-Mar-85 01:39:22 EST
References: <309@calmasd.UUCP>
Organization: Develcon Electronics, Saskatoon, SK
Lines: 57

> ... list of UNIX-alikes ...
 
> 5.  Ultrix
>      This was mentioned as an alternative because of the
> performance problems of "OS within an OS" approach.  If you can
> share a machine between two OS (at different times, of course) or
> you have a separate development machine, using a UNIX-lookalike
> that is native could be the way to go.  Of course, if you can
> afford this, you could probably just run 4.2.  However, if you are
> heavily dependent upon VMS, you might prefer Ultrix because it is
> a DEC-supported product.  I hear the DEC CEs don't like doing
> diagnostics on VAX with foreign OS.

We have been running Ultrix since before Christmas and I have some
reactions: far fewer problems than any other installation of UNIX that
I have done or helped with - some games don't work, vi has all of the
standard vi bugs, and dbx is badly crippled.  Also, we did not have to
buy a UNIX source licence.  I have talked with some people running
"vanilla" 4.2 and it sounds like we have an exceptional system:
virtually bug free (although wait until the load gets unreasonable).
Initial installation took 8 hours from our DEC person, mostly because
he had never been trained on Ultrix ('tis a problem).  We have had 2
"pure" software crashes in this time, both of which we are discussing
with the DEC CSC (which has been very helpful so far).  The major
problem we will experience is that we don't get some things as soon as
we would like (SCCS, RCS, ...) because DEC likes to fix them before
releasing them.  Also, Ultrix V1.1 (Real Soon Now) will have the
feature (kludge?) to be able to run VMS diagnostics online.  This will
give our CE's a homey feeling.

> ...  This explains the popularity of re-implementing Unix
> (Ultrix, Zenix, ad nauseaum) ...

I understood that you could not call a system UNIX(TM) unless it was
either from AT&T *or* was validated by them (i.e., the validated System
V products from Motorola, etc.).  Thus, the system had to be renamed
whether it was a straight port, or added significant changes (such as
Microsoft did with XENIX).

>                          ... and even more importantly, the
> popularity of Unix system calls as an application on top of a
> proprietary OS - Eunice provides this for VMS and several vendors
> (Ridge, Elexsis and Data General, at least) are taking
> this approach now.

Also, DEC now offers a product under VMS called DECshell, which has
about 50 or 60 of the nice UNIX tools, plus efficient (under VMS,
anyway) implementations of pipes and processes.

> John McNally  Calma  11080 Roselle St. San Diego CA 92121
> ...{ucbvax,decvax}!sdcsvax!calmasd!jpm     (619)-458-3230
-- 
[The opinions expressed here are only loosely based on the facts]

Bob Dalgleish		...!alberta!sask!zaphod!bobd
			      ihnp4!
(My company has disclaimed any knowledge of me and whatever I might say)