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From: rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: freedom and reason (attn russ, rich, & laura)
Message-ID: <362@aesat.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 17-Mar-85 16:36:44 EST
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Posted: Sun Mar 17 16:36:44 1985
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(> Paul Torek; * Laura Creighton)

> Actually, when you say "I have free will" while making (what we ordinarily
> would describe as) a choice, that's a self-evident truth too. (!)

Tautological. How can you demonstrate whether, in that precise situation, I am
making a choice. Perhaps I'm compulsively lying. (!!)

> You are "stuck" with freedom in the sense that you cannot just will it
> away.

Yes, but I could perform acts that would diminish my freedom, like committing
a crime and getting thrown in jail. But I think here we're starting to confuse
"free will", which is a binary valued attribute, with "freedom", whose values
lie along a continuum.

> [Paranoids are] wonderful at logic, maybe. Perception involves some use
> of reason ... at least when it comes to making judgments based on our
> sensory input.

I don't consider judgment part of perception. I hear a loud bang. If I'm
walking down a Beirut street, I'll dive for cover. If I'm sitting
at the symphony, I'll assume it's the kettledrum. Hearing the sound is
"perception". The following part is what I label "interpretation".

Suppose I perceive people looking at me, and looking away, and looking at me,
and looking away... . Now I could interpret that as "They're looking at me
because they're going to get me", in which case I'm paranoid; or as "They're
looking at me because I'm such a handsome devil...", in which case I'm
simply crazy :-); or as "They're looking at me because, oops, maybe my fly
is undone", in which case I am being rational. But the first interpretation
I make occurs without rational mediation as to which one it will be!  And
my ability to generate subsequent interpretations is not under immediate
control. Here is where free will and freedom collapse into a black hole.

* It doesn't do any good to say "A soul gives me free will".

I agree. Iff you have free will, you can allocate the possessor of that
attribute to that part of you, iff you wish to identify some part of you
as a soul. Frankly, I find it completely appropriate to correlate so closely
two things you can't prove you have!

* If you are using what you believe or what you feel as a tool for for
* reasoning, then it does not follow that you are not reasoning. Your
* conclusions may be lousy, however.

Then again, your conclusions may be better.
Beliefs and feelings are appropriate *data* for decisions, particularly
feelings. There is another decision-making tool, besides reason, available
to humans - intuition. But that is a separate topic.
-- 
  ______			Russ Herman
 /      \			{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh
@( ?  ? )@			
 (  ||  )			The opinions above are strictly personal, and 
 ( \__/ )			do not reflect those of my employer (or even
  \____/			possibly myself an hour from now.)