Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ccice5.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!rochester!ritcv!ccice5!rdz
From: rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: (DANGER: contains FACTS) (not used)
Message-ID: <734@ccice5.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 18-Mar-85 13:23:45 EST
Article-I.D.: ccice5.734
Posted: Mon Mar 18 13:23:45 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 20-Mar-85 06:35:15 EST
References: <726@ccice5.UUCP> <372@enmasse.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: CCI Central Engineering, Rochester, NY
Lines: 78

> 
> 	Drug trade: passes (1), (3); fails (2), (4), (5), (6).
> 
> 	2: the DEA is out to get you if you trade in drugs. This is unlike,
> 	for example, the rug business, where importation or production
> 	of rugs will not land you in jail.

I would view this as an inherent trait rather than a DIRECT limit to
competition.
> 
> 	4: it is my assertion that competition is artificially limited,
> 	NOT NONEXISTANT, through the collusion of organised crime and
> 	corrupt government officials.

I will bend in your direction on this one.  But I will assert that such
things as "designer drugs" are outside of this collusion.
> 
> 	5: this depends on the drug. Marijuana is more competitve, the
> 	price fluctuates with availability. Cocaine, on the other hand,
> 	always costs $100 a gram, the price is fixed, the quality of
> 	the substance fluctuates.

I won't disagree with you on this one because I have no facts to dispute it.
But I don't really believe it either.
> 
> 	6: this is where the real debate is. It is my assertion that
> 	organized crime syndicates form a part of what I would label 
> 	the "hidden government." This is not the same as elected
> 	officials, post office clerks, etc. Like the collusion of
> 	economic interests between the pentagon and defense contractors,
> 	the drug trade creates a relationship between cartels of
> 	drug traffickers and various enforcement agencies. These
> 	relationships are extremely difficult to document, however, one
> 	classic example was the CIA involvement with the golden triangle
> 	opium producers. Another example is the town in florida that
> 	was written up in ?Life magazine last year- Port Everglades or
> 	something. The entire town was involved in smuggling, police,
> 	elected officials etc. The DEA had to conduct a military operation
> 	to shut it down. 

Granted.  My point is that there are many such "oligopolies".  And I feel
that, viewed on a NATIONAL basis, none of them can be called a real oligopoly.
This is why I feel we are talking about a free market.
> 

(Another section of quote included here)
> 	Drug trade fails 2,3,4; 1 is debateable.

2.  It depends on how you define a standardized product.  Are hot dogs 
standardized?  How about toothpaste?  The size designation on clothes?
I think you could argue either way on these and many others (including
drugs).
3.  On a NATIONAL basis this statement does apply to drugs.  It may or
may not on a regional or local basis.
4.  Refer to above.  I don't think the illegality angle or organized
crime argument will stand-up here.
> 
> Flame starts here:
Granted.  I appologize for the knee-jerk reaction when people started
calling me a fool.
> 
>    If I knew no economics except that which you have quoted, I would
>    still conclude that the drug trade does not represent an example of a
>    free market.

Sorry I haven't been able to convince you. [:-/-)]
> 
> 	What I said was that at the lower levels of the drug trade,
> 	i.e. the street level dealers, individual entrepeneurs, etc.,
> 	there was competition, and a relatively free market. However,
> 	the import/export business, and large scale production is
> 	controlled by organized crime. 

I'm sorry, but I think your second sentence is simply wrong.  I make this
statement based on my investigation of this subject.  If you have other
sources of information, please let me know. [again, :-/-)].

	*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***