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From: mck@ratex.UUCP (Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: The United Nations -- Reply to Kelly
Message-ID: <996@ratex.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 25-Mar-85 16:27:47 EST
Article-I.D.: ratex.996
Posted: Mon Mar 25 16:27:47 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 26-Mar-85 05:43:35 EST
Organization: Squids R Us
Lines: 75


Lines marked '>' are from Mike Kelly.

>(a) There is no difference between authoritarian and totalitarian regimes.

Actually, at one time there was a difference in degree, but current usage
has blurred the distinction.

>    It is an invention of Jeanne Kirkpatrick to justify her support for
>    some tyrants and her denunciation of others.

There is no question that Kirkpatrick has a great deal of responsiblity for
the confusion, especially as the countries that she calls 'authoritarian'
are often worse (based on the reports of Amnesty International) than those
that she calls 'totalitarian'.

>                                                  Torture is torture.

That's good rhetoric, but bad philosophy.  I'm more interested in stopping
death camps than an ocassional broken finger.  This does not mean that I
find, say, what happens in Poland acceptable -- just that I'm more upset by
Kampuchea.

>(b) Do you believe there is a military solution for the world's problems?

Nope.

>    If not, then you either believe there is no solution (a pretty uninspired
>    position) or you believe in a political solution.

That depends on how broad a concept you mean by 'a political solution'.  I
do not believe in an ACTIVIST role for the U.S. government.  There was a
time when the U.S. had an enormous effect on the oppressed peoples of the
world, simply by setting an (admittedly flawed) example.  Now, a great deal
of the world associates us with subsidization of the dictatorships under
which they live; things are so bad that they actually look to the USSR for
liberation.

>                                                       The U.N. is the
>    world's political forum.

NO!  NO!!  NO!!!  The U.N. is NOT the WORLD's political forum; it is a
forum for the OPPRESSORS of the world!

>                              We may not like all the other nations of the
>    world, but we have to live with them (unless you believe in a military
>    solution).

I have to live with a lot of people.  That doesn't mean that I'm going to
invite them over for tea, or give them boards with which they can beat
their children.

>                The U.N. represents our attempt to live with them.

The U.N. may represent YOUR attempt to live with them; it is certainly not
mine.  And whose ever attempt it is, it is a thoroughly failed attempt.
Providing oppressors with a forum to spout-off doesn't keep them from
oppressing; in fact, it often helps them to organize their oppression.  And
giving them other resources hardly serves to diminish their power.

>                                                                    I think
>    the U.S. can well afford the money we put into it.

Similarly, we can well afford to subsidize the Sicilian Mafia (maybe if we
do then they'll behave)!

>                                                        It's a very small
>    fraction of the money we invest in the military "solution."

Ahh.  Since there's an even dumber approach (imperialism), then the U.N.
must be the smart approach!  Similarly, since it's dumber to drive nails
with your eyeball, you should use your fist!?!

                                        Try again!
                                        DKMcK