Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 v7 ucbtopaz-1.8; site ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!godot!mit-eddie!genrad!decvax!ucbvax!ucbtopaz!mwm From: mwm@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: U.S. began as "Libertarian State"???? Message-ID: <818@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> Date: Wed, 31-Dec-69 18:59:59 EST Article-I.D.: ucbtopaz.818 Posted: Wed Dec 31 18:59:59 1969 Date-Received: Sat, 16-Mar-85 12:49:18 EST References: <1597@bmcg.UUCP> <233@tilt.FUN> <676@unmvax.UUCP> <240@tilt.FUN> <1426@dciem.UUCP> <785@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> <515@whuxl.UUCP> Reply-To: mwm@ucbtopaz.UUCP (Praiser of Bob) Distribution: net Organization: Missionaria Phonibalonica Lines: 32 Summary: In article <515@whuxl.UUCP> orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) writes: >> > The US makes a good working example of this: it started as a relatively >> libertarian state, grew strong and etc., and slid (is sliding) into a >> totalitarian-socialism [and before the flames start, no, I do *not* think >> those two are inevitebly coupled]. > >Once again we hear repeated the old rightwing myth that the United States >began with a cabal of "Libertarians" and diehard advocates of "free >enterprise". > >It is simply dead wrong for Libertarians to try to claim that the >originators of our democracy were "Libertarians". >Please stop making this claim! > tim sevener whuxl!orb Tim, please *read* what you quoted from my article. I did not say word one about the philosophies of the founding fathers of the US. What I did say was that they founded a relatively libertarian state. The founding fathers, like most groups, represented a range of beliefs, including a some with a libertarian/free-enterprise stance. While they didn't manage to turn out a truly libertarian state, they did manage to keep the US from using force to make people contribute to its idea of "good," at least temporarily. I won't stop making the claim that the originators of our republic were libertarians. I can't, having never made it. I wish *you* would start repling to what people said, as opposed to what you wish they had said. You should consider Carnes as a model, or let him speak for you.