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From: josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Capitalist production
Message-ID: <1032@topaz.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 22-Mar-85 20:21:23 EST
Article-I.D.: topaz.1032
Posted: Fri Mar 22 20:21:23 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 23-Mar-85 04:20:25 EST
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Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
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>Martin Taylor
>If you subtract living costs up to, say, 150% of the poverty level,
>do the workers still make an order of magnitude more than the
>capitalists? 

The only stat I know that bears on this is that 90% of all income 
in the US is made at or below the $35K level (Grace, in Burning Money).

> If they do, do they have the coherent organization
>that would enable them to become effective capitalists (remember,
>that means centralization of control).

Here the collectivist fallacy rears its ugly head--"you have to be 
centrally organized or you're powerless".  I suggest that this one point 
is more important than all the rest of the discussion here.
It's "out of sight, out of mind" writ large:  "if I can't point to
it, it doesn't exist."  A market is *more* effective as a force for
the betterment of the worker (indeed of everybody) than any central
organization.  In this particular case, the workers need merely buy
stock.  If they formed a central organization to do their buying,
the organization, not the workers, would own it.

>  I suspect that many of those
>who DO have a little left over after staying alive ARE capitalists,
>in that they may own a little stock, or have a pension plan that
>invests for them.

All this means is that they have already started in with my plan...

>It's a bit smug to say workers aren't capitalists because they are
>comfortable, and prefer another beer to owning factories.

I say it because I tried it, and so I know what I'm talking about.

--JoSH