Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site petsd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!petsd!cjh From: cjh@petsd.UUCP (Chris Henrich) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Black replies. Message-ID: <471@petsd.UUCP> Date: Thu, 14-Mar-85 17:22:18 EST Article-I.D.: petsd.471 Posted: Thu Mar 14 17:22:18 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 15-Mar-85 05:08:55 EST References: <1072@decwrl.UUCP> Organization: Perkin-Elmer DSG, Tinton Falls, N.J. Lines: 143 [] Part of Mr. Black's article calls for reply. > I guess maybe an even greater problem in America is not with Communism, > not with atheists, not with the Jews, or the schools, or the politicians, but > rather it is a deeper, less obvious problem. American Christians just do not > realize who they are, what America is, and what God's promise to them and to > America comprises. When American Christians begin to "see the light," the > Antichrist is in "deep sneakers." Do Americans have a special, unique role to play in God's plan for the world? Certainly. So do all other nations. Our divinely appointed task may be a big one, because we are blessed with lots of resources and an unusually privileged history. (Not that every individual American has been unusually favored - but the nation as a whole has been.) But this does not imply that all our national goals and interests are specially ratified by God. Even if, in some conflict, we act in a good cause, this does not mean that everything we may do for that cause must be right. I agree that communism is evil, but this does not give us the right to commit all the violence in our power against people who have the misfortune to be communists. The danger of spiritual pride is that if we identify our adversaries as "Anti-Christ" then we are confusing ourselves with a kind of secular, collective Messiah. Mr. Black raises some good questions: what is God's promise to America and to American Christians? And what does He expect of us in return? Answers must pass the test of these counter-questions: How do you know? And have you successfully refrained from projecting your own desires onto the image of God? Consider the phrase "manifest destiny" that was loved by some American speakers in the Nineteenth Century. They too quickly went from "We want to push other people around" to "God wants us to push other people around." Consider that what may seem like a Crusade from our point of view may seem like plain old imperialism from another. Peace, Chris -- Full-Name: Christopher J. Henrich UUCP: ..!(cornell | ariel | ukc | houxz)!vax135!petsd!cjh US Mail: MS 313; Perkin-Elmer; 106 Apple St; Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 Phone: (201) 870-5853 From vax135!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-nisysg!black Wed Dec 31 19:00:00 1969 Relay-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site petsd.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: petsd!vax135!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-nisysg!black From: black@nisysg.DEC Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Black replies. Message-ID: <1072@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Tue, 12-Mar-85 12:13:23 EST Date-Received: Thu, 14-Mar-85 08:34:24 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 82 >I have talked to various christian leaders who think that the >world shoudl become a series of christian states and that non-christians >should be institutionalised. They are there -- try any campus christian >group (except, say, theology centres) and you will find some -- I've >found them on 12 campuses already and hear about them from others. >Laura Creighton Laura, would you mind naming a few of these campuses and the names of the groups that are preaching this? I know about a group out in Idaho (the Aryan Nations) that are a little far out, but I'd be curious to find out what these other groups have to say. They tell me that Falwell's preaching is so pro-Israel and pro-Jewish that he trips over himself. How can you say that such a fine Christian as Jerry (who runs many campus Christian groups) is anti-non-Christian? >Path: decwrl!decvax!mit-athena!martillo >Subject: Re: Christians converting Christians >Posted: Fri Mar 1 05:52:51 1985 >Judaism does not proselytize specifically because it accepts the >existence of many cultures and religions. Everyone not just Jews has a >portion in the world to come. Obviously, if some pagan is praying to an >idol, he is not praying to God, but if that prayer is well-intentioned >and sincere God may chose to listen. Judaism merely expects of non-Jews >that they act decently. How is this intolerant? That ain't exactly what I've heard. For example, I heard that in the State of Israel (the epitome of Judaism) it is not possible for a non-Jew to obtain citizenship. I also heard it is against the law to give a Jew a copy of the New Testament. I heard that it is also an offense to tell a Jew under 18 years of age anything about Christianity. I heard that in the State of Israel if you don't belong to a certain nationality of Jews, you and a dog have a lot in common. (Somebody even told me that it is an offense punishable by death to allow a non-Jew to read the Talmud, but that sounds a little far-fetched to be true.) If I heard wrong, then I'm ignorant, and I need educating. Now I ask, is it an indecent act to hand out copies of the New Testa- ment? Is it an indecent act to be anything other than...No, I'm going to refrain from finishing this sentence. >Just don't mix it with conservative politics! Cain tried that ("Am I >my brother's keeper?"), and you know what happened to him. > >More to the point, Biblical days seem to have been pretty horrible. I'll >stick with the preposterous 20th century, thanks. >-- >Col. G. L. Sicherman >...decvax!sunybcs!gloria!colonel >Subject: Re: it was good enough for grandpa >Posted: Sun Mar 3 08:38:19 1985 With all due respect, colonel, military rank does not impress me; credentials and accomplishments do. Yes, the 20th century sure has been preposterous! Since 1914, Babylon has done nothing but get drunk on the blood of American martyrs. We've waged plenty of battles against Communism, but to this day we have not yet declared war on it. (And what could be a better definition of "Antichrist" than "those who are against, i.e. anti-, Christ? And who are more anti-Christ than the Communists, except for maybe...well, never mind.) I guess maybe an even greater problem in America is not with Communism, not with atheists, not with the Jews, or the schools, or the politicians, but rather it is a deeper, less obvious problem. American Christians just do not realize who they are, what America is, and what God's promise to them and to America comprises. When American Christians begin to "see the light," the Antichrist is in "deep sneakers." In Hoc signo, Don Black Path:...decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-nisysg!black