Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site burdvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!idis!cadre!psuvax1!burdvax!bnapl From: bnapl@burdvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion,net.religion.christian Subject: Re: Black's ravings Message-ID: <1972@burdvax.UUCP> Date: Sat, 16-Mar-85 11:20:50 EST Article-I.D.: burdvax.1972 Posted: Sat Mar 16 11:20:50 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 19-Mar-85 04:27:07 EST References: <5080@fortune.UUCP> <1958@sdcc6.UUCP> Reply-To: bnapl@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht) Distribution: net Organization: Burroughs Corp. - SDG/Devon Lines: 52 Xref: watmath net.religion:6124 net.religion.christian:463 Summary: In article brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard brower) writes: > >Well, I know gay ministers. Most of the ones that I know were ordained >in denominations which were, at that time, not supportive of gay people >at all (some have changed their views and some have not) and those ordained >were deep in the closet. Some of them married and had children. Most >of them have since severed their ties to their original denominations, >due to the anti-gay sentiments of their church's hierarchy and their >own needs to be free. Many of them are still excellent ministers to >their flocks. Many have joined with MCC, Dignity, or other groups >catering to gay Christians. Rev. Troy Perry and Rev. James Sandmier >are two examples of Christian ministers (fully out, which is why I use >their names) who have dedicated their ministries through MCC. Troy was >a Baptist and James was a Mormon. >-- >Richard A. Brower Fortune Systems >{ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower It would seem that these "ministers" are sinning in several ways. First, the sin of homosexual activity needs to be confessed and repented of. Second, there is the lying to one's family and friends over the sin. In this case, they need to go to these people and ask for their forgiveness. Sin breeds more sin and waiting only compounds the problem. A broader question remains, namely, how can these ministers serve their flocks while living an openly sinful lifestyle? How can they be an example to others while lusting after members of their own sex? If a heterosexual minister engaged in sexual activity with someone he was not married to that would be fornication. What do you call it for the homosexual? "Coming out of the closet"? Paul made it clear in several places in the NT that homosexual activity is a sin. In our 20th century, "I gotta be me" society, the role of the Christian as a model of the Lord Jesus Christ to a dying world has been lost. Our life should reflect His life. People should look at us and see Christ. A man living in adultery, drunkenness or homosexuality is not exhibiting the marks of a true Christian. Steps should be taken to discipline those who are living in open rebellion to the Word of God. But of course, if the "church" condones it, then how can it discipline. Of course these ministers felt "uncomfortable" in their old churches. After much prayer and exhortation, they would have been excommunicated if they remained in their sin (no matter what the sin). Of course they will seek our those of their own thinking and band together to form a new "church". That doesn't mean it's a Christian church. Just saying it's so doesn't make it so. We should be careful about basing truth on experience. Just because something seems right to me doesn't mean that it is right. The Bible is full of individuals who thought they knew better than God and committed some offense. In most cases the results were disastrous. -- Tom Albrecht Burroughs Corp. ...{presby|psuvax1|sdcrdcf}!burdvax!bnapl