Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-lymph!arndt
From: arndt@lymph.DEC
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Rich Rosen 170 AD????
Message-ID: <1153@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 18-Mar-85 17:15:03 EST
Article-I.D.: decwrl.1153
Posted: Mon Mar 18 17:15:03 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 20-Mar-85 04:48:22 EST
Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP
Organization: DEC Engineering Network
Lines: 50


            but with more wit!

I was all settled in last night with a small glass of wine (red) and a
good book (Origen's CONTRA CELSUM - as is my wont) when I swear I came
upon Rich Rosen in a previous life!!!

Origen speaks agains Celsus's TRUE DOCTRINE.
                                      
Speaking of the resurrection of Jesus Celsus says:

"While he was alive he did not help himself, but after death he rose again
and showed the marks of his punishment and how his hands had been pierced.
But who say this?  A hysterical female, as you say, and perhaps some other
one of those who were deluded by the same sorcery, who either dreamt in a
certain state of mind and through wishful thinking had a hallucination due
to some mistaken notion (an experience which has happened to thousands), or,
which is more likely, wanted to impress the others by telling this fantastic
tale, and so by this cock-and-bull story to provide a chance for other 
beggars."
                 Cels. 2.55

"Some [Christians], do not even want to give a reason for what they believe,
and use such expressions as 'Do not ask questions; just believe' and 'Your
faith will save you.'  Others quote the apostle Paul. 'The wisdom in the
world is evil and foolishness is a good thing'" I Cor.1:25-26
            
                 Cels. 1.9

But at least he has more wit than Rich!!

"Everywhere they speak in their writings of the tree of life and of
resurrection of the flesh by the tree - I imagine because their master
was nailed to a cross and was a carpenter by trade.  So that if he had
happened to be thrown off a cliff, or pushed into a pit, or suffocated by
strangling, or if he had been a cobbler or stonemason or blacksmith, there
would have been a cliff of life above the heavens, or a pit of resurrection,
or a rope of immortality, or a blessed stone, or an iron of love, or a holy
hide of leather.  Would not an old woman who sings a story to lull a little
child to sleep have been ashamed to whisper such tales as these."

                 Cels. 6:34

There's more, much more - but I leave it to you to find in Origen's
work.  See Henry Chadwick, ORIGEN:CONTRA CELSUM,Cambridge,1953.

Regards,

Ken Arndt