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From: brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Black's ravings
Message-ID: <5130@fortune.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 20-Mar-85 20:55:52 EST
Article-I.D.: fortune.5130
Posted: Wed Mar 20 20:55:52 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 21-Mar-85 04:16:53 EST
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bnapl@burdvax.UUCP (Tom Albrecht)writes:
>It would seem that these "ministers" are sinning in several ways.  First,
>the sin of homosexual activity needs to be confessed and repented of.  
>Second, there is the lying to one's family and friends over the sin.  
>In this case, they need to go to these people and ask for their
>forgiveness. Sin breeds more sin and waiting only compounds the problem.

Actually, I do not know if they practiced homosexuality during the period
before coming out, or just suffered in a (to them) unnatural lifestyle.

>A broader question remains, namely, how can these ministers serve their
>flocks while living an openly sinful lifestyle?  How can they be an example
>to others while lusting after members of their own sex?  If a heterosexual
>minister engaged in sexual activity with someone he was not married to that
>would be fornication.  What do you call it for the homosexual?  "Coming out
>of the closet"?  Paul made it clear in several places in the NT that
>homosexual activity is a sin.
>...
>A man living in adultery, drunkenness or
>homosexuality is not exhibiting the marks of a true Christian.
>Of course these ministers felt "uncomfortable" in their old
>churches.  Of
>course they will seek our those of their own thinking and band together to
>form a new "church".  That doesn't mean it's a Christian church.  Just
>saying it's so doesn't make it so.

This is obviously the dispute.  Troy says that God spoke to him, telling
Troy that he needed to minister to his gay brothers and that is why he
founded Metropolitan Community Church.  For people who claim that God
speaks to them, you folks sure aren't sympathetic to others who say that
God spoke to them.  I believe (note that I do not in any way speak for
MCC) that the official policy of MCC goes along the lines that the Old
Testament does not necessarily bind Christians (much the same as most
Christians feel about eating pork) and Paul, not being God and having a
legalistic background, inserted some of his own feelings into some of his
letters to various early churches, it being assumed that Paul could make
errors (he isn't God and therefore perfect).  It is noticed that Jesus
according to the stories of Jesus recorded in the Gospels makes no mention
of homosexuality.  He says a lot about loving your brothers and sisters
and a lot about going out your way to treat your neighbors with dignity.
He mentions being careful to pull the log out of your eye before trying
to remove the speck in the eye of your brother.

It seems to be a given that each brand of Christianity says that anybody
who doesn't agree with them in every particular isn't a Christian.  I am
reminded of the story of the Pharisee... and it makes me sick!
-- 
Richard A. Brower		Fortune Systems
{ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower